Delving into IEMs, need a little advice.

Afternoon all

I have been considering for a while now moving towards IEMs. I am the singer and lead guitarist in the band and whilst I can hear my guitar fine (Kemper + 2x12 cab) I sometimes struggle with vocals. I use a VL3x to add some doubling and at times harmonies but out of a monitor these effects are lost.

I have been looking at 2 systems which are the Gear4Music cheap IEMs for testing purposes (£79) or going straight to a Shure PMW300 Premium (£709) solution. Does anyone have any experience with the Gear4Music ones and what did you think? I only play small bars and clubs and once we hit the larger venues, or the rest of the band adopt them, I would move to a more suitable solution.

Any advice would be welcome.

Mike

Hey man

Thanks for the reply.

This would only be for vocals so I can hear myself if the monitors don't do the job and the rest of the band all use amps so I can hear them anyway. There are a few venues where the sound guy isn't to good with the monitor mix and a lot of the time you can't hear a thing. I do have a dxr10 spare I can use to ensure I have control.

I do not have access to a set to test which is why I am looking at a cheap version to start with, if it works out I will buy a better IEM. If I don't like them I would just give them to the drummer for his click track.

I have done some research and a few people have said IEMs are not the best for just vocal monitoring as you have to have one ear out but I have also seen reviews where people go with Earphones that are not completely isolated and provide some leakage or have an ambient mic.

I suppose I am asking 2 things;

1) does anyone have any experience with the Gear4Music IEMs.

2) how do people find only tracking vocals?

Oh and...

3) if £709 appears to be a lot what are other recommended models to consider?

Cheers man

Hey

Thank you both.

Quote from nightlight

1) Unfortunately, I have no experience. There must be a reason they're only 79 though, right? I have a Plantronics that I use to listen to music and that costs more than 79. Of course, I suppose it's worth a try. Do you have any idea where the Gear4Music in-ears are made?

Totally agree, they must be cheap for a reason but are they that cheap they are unusable or cheap enough to have as a test IEM solution? Not sure where they are made, I didn't really think to look to be honest but I will definitely take a look.

Quote from nightlight

2) It's not just the in-ears that count. The soundman needs to give you a good mix, otherwise even the most expensive in-ear will sound like crap.

I think this is one area that will be fine for me as I only want to monitor my vocals and the VL3x has a pretty good headphone amp built in so I would take that out to the IEM.

Quote from nightlight

3) Well, a lot of money for me! Check out this review, should be easy to find something that you think will deliver the goods.

Cheers man, I will check over the link now.

Quote from greenblob

our band all moved over to IEM's 2yrs or so and have learnt some good lessons since then. I'm sure you've noticed it can get expensive pretty fast

I have read over a few stories that are completely based on individual experience in that some love it and would never use a monitor again, then others that hated the sound (doesn't sound like a band) isolation. I think this is why I am taking a cautious approach in terms of cost because as you righty said it can get expensive fast. None of the band want any IEM solutions at all which is fine for them as they can all hear themselves so its a vocal only solution I require (may put my Kemper in too going forward)

Quote from greenblob

The quality of the in ear headphones themselves is paramount! Maybe consider doing the bulk of your research & spending your money here first.

Excellent advice as it does seem to be the difference between loving and hating the experience. I also like the idea that you can put in money for the IEM transmitter and receiver but each person controls the cost of the earphones. I will research this area too.

Quote from greenblob

A great set of in ear phones serves double duty as an awesome general purpose set to just listen to music etc also, and will last almost forever if treated nicely. Treat yo' self!

I actually need a good set of earphone for general use too. My gear is in exceptional condition as I always look after it.

Quote from greenblob

As long as you can find a transmitter\receiver that has favourable reviews without loads of people having dropouts or reliability issues, I'd say go for the cheaper option there first and see if you even like performing with IEM's. They really change the experience when you play (can be isolating and suck a lot of the fun out of performing live) so understandably, many dislike using them because of that.

Yeah I have read a lot about the isolation factor but as I am singing and playing lead I cant move much anyway so I am hoping an ambient mic will keep me feeling the mood and allow me to engage with the crowd.

I think I will see if anyone can provide any direct experience with the Gear4Music ones and if not I will go with the cheap option to test out in practice. In the meantime I will continue my research.

Thank you both, been very helpful so any more guidance will be fantastic.

Hi all

Sorry for the late reply:

Quote from Atlantic

If I understood correctly you have a Voice Live 3 Extreme? If that is the case, you could use a double cable (in ear+guitar) to connect yourself to the voice live and not need any wireless system.

I do indeed use a VL3x but it is rack mounted and behind me. I control all patch changes via the Kemper remote. I did try the double cable at one point but it didn't really work well for us as we are a hard rock band and we play quite loud.

Quote from Atlantic

I connect the ambient microphones thath the VL3X has so I have some room sound mixed in my in ears.

Interesting Atlanta so did your VL3x come with a separate microphone or is it a built in ambient mic. I had completely forgot about that feature mate. That could indeed be very useful.

Quote from Atlantic

If you want, the voicelive also has a monitor IN so playing live you could ask the tech to just send the general mix to your voicelive and then just mix it yourself with your voice in the unit.

It is interesting you say that as my idea, if just vocals is not enough, is to have a small rack mixer with the Kemper, VL3x out in stereo then to the in ear along with the ambient mic. Then a connection from FOH to provide some drums but in the meantime whilst I am testing that's a great idea.

Quote from Atlantic

For in ears I use the Shure SE215 that are very good for the price

This is what I believe come with the Shure PSM300 Premium and one of the reasons I will buy the better unit.

Quote from Raoul23

I use the Sennheiser ew IEM300 G2 model and its solid as a rock, the limiter is quite transparent and the sound it delivers is excellent

Raoul I will check this model out as I have heard good things about the Sennheiser range and they seem to be comparable or better than the Shure models. The reason Shure take president at the moment is because I use a wireless guitar pack from them and its rock solid.

Quote from greenblob

Agreed. IMO multiple drivers really do make a huge difference, especially for separation/performance monitoring

I did some research on drivers and it was interested to hear that to many can create to much bass and its about finding a good balance.

Quote from greenblob

The Shure SE215's are a pretty safe and reliable all rounder. They get the job done, sound pretty good doing it, and wont totally break the bank (or your heart if you lose them). Good recommendation! They are what I was first using before diving into custom molds and multiple drivers

Seems I am doing well in my research as these are what I will be looking at.

As an update today I ordered the Gear4Music pack as I would like to try the system out first to see if the isolation and detachment from the band is worth it. Once I confirm they are working and it makes a difference I will buy a better set. What I would love to find is a 19" rack that does both guitar and vocal wirelessly to get rid of some kit and streamline my setup even more.

Guys thank you so much for your advice, its been a great help.

Mike

Hi

MonkeyPeanutButter...... Great name

Yes I want to make sure that I get at least 10 gigs before I decide to upgrade. We are a loud band and my ears are part of why I want them.

Atlanta.

It's actually really easy. I have the rack version of the Kemper in a 6u case. Above I have a shelf with the Vl3x Velcro to the shelf.

I take a midi cable out of the Kemper onto the Vl3x and set the Vl3x to listen to midi via a midi cable as opposed to USB.

Now this is where the Kemper midi is brilliant.

You have two options, set up say 3 patches you will use on all songs (2 voices close, 4 voices wide and a 3rd above/5th below take up patch 1, 2 and 3 on the Vl3x). On the kemper select a patch, any patch, and go to the midi settings. Set it to channel one then set the midi CC to 1, 2 or 3 depending on the channel you want to bring up.

I use it different as I have a patch per part of a song but the same principle applies.

Happy to help you set it up when you get your pedal mate.

Mike

Guys

As you provided so much information I thought I would share my experience.

Yesterday I tried out the Gear4music cheap £70 In ear monitors.

Test Environment:
This was at practice, we are a loud hard rock band in a reasonable sized room so the sound pressure quite high. We played for 6 hours with a 1hr break.

My voice:
My vocals are quite gruff with a bit of natural distortion. Probably comparable to Layne from AIC or Chris Cornell. This type of singing is quite harsh on the vocal chords.

The product:
OK this is cheap, I mean if you have ever purchased a cheap router you will know the feel of a flimsy plastic box. Luckily from the reviews I was pre warned about this so it was not a shock. The headphones were actually really comfortable to wear and provided really good stereo separation and isolation.

Testing:
As mentioned this was a 5hr practice with me singing and playing guitar. I only had vocals through the IEMs via my Vl3x.

My experience:
For the first time I could hear the vl3x harmonies, the wide 4 voice sounded fantastic but more importantly it made me realise I had the doubling mixed in far to loud and this probably happened because I was trying to hear them via the monitors. After adjusting the patches my voice become so much more clear.

I found myself removing nearly all reverb from my vocals and any delays as it just was not needed. I think part of my monitoring issue was having effects mixed in to high.

The sound separation was fantastic but I did struggle to deal with the isolation. I like to feel the band (not in a sexual way) but with both Earphones in it made my guitar disappear and if the drums dropped out I found it required to much concentration to stay in time.

At this point I reverted to 1 earphone and I could now hear the band. At one point I thought they were not working so took the earphone out and my vocals disappeared, that made me realise these were working perfectly fine.

Verdict:
The result of 5hrs singing after a 2 week break was that I had a bit of a harsh feeling in my throat which is a great improvement. I found I was singing a lot lower with a lot more control and my mic proximity to the microphone was easier to control.

It really helped with the cover of Would by AIC as I struggle with spoken sections (damn Liverpool accent). As I could hear myself I adjusted my breathing and the amount of air coming out and it was starting to sound so much better.

Are these going to last long term, probably not as the pack is also plastic so this will no doubt break at some point. I treat my gear well so I am hoping it lasts long enough for me to save for a much more robust set. The unit will be in my rack case so I don't see that breaking soon.

I think they are a great introduction to IEMs without having to spend £700 plus. The second I started using them I realised how easy it was to adjust my vocals and my performance improved

Anyway not a big review but this will hopefully help someone.

Regards

Mike

Haha..... I thought I would make that comment before someone else did