I heard a rumor about a new Kemper Reverb that compete BIG SKY or IMMERSE type of reverb

    Quote from prsgary

    That was a fun read, Chris, well done.

    Quote from Duplicate Sir_Digby

    As a fellow IT person, I can completely relate to that story! Good read

    Thanks, guys. In the interest of full disclosure, the marketing / programmer conversation was paraphrased from a similar story in my first book (it was for programmers) and most of my readers at the time also recognized that scenario as a familiar one.


    If you haven't guessed, as a pro developer I am thus far very much a fan of the Kemper team, both coders and management. They take the flak from users anxious for the next release in stride (which is, after all, a compliment) and seem to be intent on spending whatever time it takes to release good stuff. I'm sure you both know how rare that is in this biz.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Edited once, last by Chris Duncan ().

    Like 5

    I agree.

    Quote from Chris Duncan

    Thanks, guys. In the interest of full disclosure, the marketing / programmer conversation was paraphrased from a similar story in my first book (it was for programmers) and most of my readers at the time also recognized that scenario as a familiar one.


    If you haven't guessed, as a pro developer I am thus far very much a fan of the Kemper team, both coders and management. They take the flak from users anxious for the next release in stride (which is, after all, a compliment) and seem to be intent on spending whatever time it takes to release good stuff. I'm sure you both know how rare that is in this biz.


    There is very little benefit to a company disclosing information prior to a product release, and lots of negative reasons for them not to.


    Yes, a year is quite some time to wait from an announced "we are working on it"; however, I think most companies wouldn't even say "we are working on it" to begin with.


    Just to make my point, the fact that everyone is up-in-arms that we don't have it yet clearly illustrates one of the major negatives of a company providing ANY information on what they are doing ..... people get upset they don't have it NOW.


    Kemper has decided to give us an idea of what they are working toward to keep us informed about the product enhancements. They are pretty diligent in not giving specific release dates (which in IMHO is a really good idea).


    There are many many things I like about Kemper. The product is well supported. It is continually updated, updates don't mess with my tone from any rig on my unit, and it is rock solid.


    As for marketing people ..... it is a shame to waste perfectly good air on them ;).


    I am the Chief Engineer at our company and spend an inordinate amount of my time fending off marketing and sales managers and their people from their incessant need to sell the impossible to the unwilling at a price below cost ;)

    Quote from OneEng1

    As for marketing people ..... it is a shame to waste perfectly good air on them ;).


    I am the Chief Engineer at our company and spend an inordinate amount of my time fending off marketing and sales managers and their people from their incessant need to sell the impossible to the unwilling at a price below cost ;)

    I feel your pain. :)


    That said, there's an old saying in the business world that does in fact justify at least the minimum amount of oxygen: "Nothing happens until a sale is made!"

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Quote from OneEng1

    There is very little benefit to a company disclosing information prior to a product release, and lots of negative reasons for them not to.


    Yes, a year is quite some time to wait from an announced "we are working on it"; however, I think most companies wouldn't even say "we are working on it" to begin with.


    There is one point your are missing there.
    Kemper has not released anything really new since the Delay Update, i think it was at winter Namm 2017.
    During this time, competition was very active, with major releases from Line 6 and Fractal.

    When you are considering to buy a 7 years old product (that is still selling well thanks to good support and updates), there is a moment you are asking yourself if this a good idea to buy one where there could be a ñew version just around the corner. When the flow of major releases stop during more that one year, you are less inclined to think this is such a good idea to buy one. Announcing a new major release then become not only a gift to your user base, but also a positive sign for your future customers.

    Quote from vjau75

    There is one point your are missing there.
    Kemper has not released anything really new since the Delay Update, i think it was at winter Namm 2017.
    During this time, competition was very active, with major releases from Line 6 and Fractal.

    When you are considering to buy a 7 years old product (that is still selling well thanks to good support and updates), there is a moment you are asking yourself if this a good idea to buy one where there could be a ñew version just around the corner. When the flow of major releases stop during more that one year, you are less inclined to think this is such a good idea to buy one. Announcing a new major release then become not only a gift to your user base, but also a positive sign for your future customers.

    I certainly understand the excitement of a new batch of features. On the other hand, especially in the world of live performance, I think there's an equal value to stability.


    When I was considering Line 6, Fractal and Kemper, one thing I kept running into was tales of Fractal users who had to do lots of work on their existing models every time a new release came out because it changed a lot of things under the hood. New functionality is great. Getting your horse shot out from under you is somewhat less appealing.


    There are also those who think that without constant updates, a software based product has less value. There's some truth to that, which varies based on the type of product. However, I just sold all my amps, some of which I've been dragging around for almost 40 years. The occasional bit of maintenance aside, my 20 year old JCM 900 still did exactly what I paid for when I bought it. Same with all the other amps. I was never unhappy that the Marshall didn't wake up one day and decide to be a Bogner. I didn't buy a Bogner. I bought a Marshall.


    In a similar manner, I didn't buy the Kemper based on some unknown functionality that might be added at some unspecified point in the future. I looked at what it does today and spent the money after deciding that the current functionality was worth the cost of the unit. So, if Kemper never did another OS update, and 20 years from now it still did what it does today, I'd still have exactly what I paid for - and be happy with it.


    On the other hand, I brought up Feedly this morning, an RSS reader that I use on my iPad. They pushed a new version (there was no option to prevent this from happening). The UI was completely redesigned. Some features that I depended on were no longer present, making my workflow exceedingly clumsy. All of this before my first cup of coffee. There may have been profanity.


    There's no way to rewind back to the features that I originally got it for. But hey, now I have a new update! So that means it's better, right? I uninstalled the app. I will now spend my weekend writing my own freakin' RSS reader, one that I know won't shoot my horse out from under me at some random moment.


    While the Feedly experience isn't an exact match to a Kemper / Fractal / Line 6 update, it nonetheless points out the fact that new isn't always better, and companies who continue to provide you with the features you paid for (or take their time with new stuff to keep from screwing up your world) are not always wrong.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Like 7
    Quote from Finally

    In the future we'll say things like "I remember where I was when the new reverbs were released, do you?" :)

    ...and then the conspiracy theories will start to pop up. Like the whole thing was faked, or a CIA operation. Or there was a second guitar player on the grassy knoll.


    KPA Unpowered Rack, Kemper Remote, Headrush FRFR108s, BC Rich Mockingbird(s), and a nasty attitude.

    Like 5

    I don't agree with the sentiments being shared in this thread. I just happened to quote your post, but this isn't a response to you specifically.


    This idea that communication is bad makes no sense. I used to play a LOT of World of Warcraft when that came out in its day. Yeah yeah, whatever, but here's my point: In the gaming world, you have huge companies making products that receive updates throughout their lifespan. In many ways, that's a very comparable business model to what Kemper are doing. So, in that world particularly, like every lead programmer has a forum account, a facebook page, a twitter page, and so forth. There is a constant dialogue between the manufacturer and the customers, like, all the time. That model seems to work perfectly fine for those companies and in that business so that's basically empirical proof that you can definitely be open and still make billions. BILLIONS. The factor that is instrumental in success or failure doesn't seem to be related to secrecy or lack thereof. Dialogue is a social game, and most people are bad at it. Open communication is a higher stakes game, so bigger risk, bigger payoff.


    I mean, paint me a picture. Kemper shares what the features of the next firmware will be. What's the worst case scenario? A feature doesn't make it. Are you implying that will cause people to sell their Kempers? That's not a loss for Kemper anyhow. Are you suggesting that new customers who are looking at Kemper, will look at that one feature that wasn't included in the most recent patch, and decide "this product is not for me" on that basis? I mean, either you want to profile all your amps, or you don't.... I just don't see how having one blog post every four months with a quarterly update of what's being worked on would do any harm. I'm not saying I demand it or even think I deserve it, so spare me the lectures, but for the sake of the discussion of the idea itself, I'm not seeing the problem.


    I mean, the "higher risk, higher payoff" point is a fair argument to just go for the safe, keep our mouths shut-route. It's a feasible model. It's like a preference more than a truth. Some companies have made it their forté to give their customers insight into how they run shit. It's like the difference between picking your own lobster and just getting a dead one on your plate. It only makes a difference to the fool. I'd prefer to know stuff and be upset about what I know, rather than having to be frustrated about the unknown, but that's down to my genetics and YMMV.

    I don't agree that World of Warcraft is a good comparison. They have a different set of challenges: low switching cost, multiple platforms, younger customers, etc.


    Kemper is more like Nintendo in that scenario.

    Quote from Finally

    I don't agree that World of Warcraft is a good comparison. They have a different set of challenges: low switching cost, multiple platforms, younger customers, etc.


    Kemper is more like Nintendo in that scenario.

    Haha, well, I didn't mean WoW is a good comparison, but a software in general. I agree Nintendo is even better, or iPhones.


    Still, paint the picture. How does the blog post stating that next firmware update will have these three big features in it lead to a huge decline in sales?


    I mean, I get the obvious case of "they announce a feature that doesn't make it that a lot of people got very excited about". So don't announce the biggest feature. Or don't actually announce the feature, tease around it. Or talk about some other feature. I mean, this problem can be mitigated by skills and cojones.

    It's not that the company doesn't share what will be implemented; it's just that it doesn't provide firm release dates.


    Sure, it doesn't divulge everything that's coming; "peripheral" stuff like bug fixes and the chipping away at providing user-requested features is par for the course with every update. "Big", "exciting" stuff tends to be leaked 'though...

    I think in this case is more like.. "let's implement nev reverbs.. how long it will take to get them perfect, a couple of weeks? 6 months later..". I see CK and Kemper team more like a prog rock band than anything else. They just work until it's done and perfect. I don't think the development over there is that much affected by marketing - user feedback, yes, definitely, but marketing, not much. There is too much pragmatic innovation going on, instead of writing useless mobile apps and adding 4k rez touch displays with youtube built in.