I heard a rumor about a new Kemper Reverb that compete BIG SKY or IMMERSE type of reverb

  • About new preset management system :

    I guess that for the new reverbs, they have to write a lot of patches/presets.
    I understand that if those patches must be somewhat redone when the new preset system is released, they prefer to wait and write them only once.

    About lack of communication :
    You wrote that Apple didn't communicate about future releases, you are right. But AFAIK, Apple doesn't have a public forum where management is writing routinely.
    When you are accustomed to have discussions with people from a brand, it doesn't seem unrealistic to wait for informations from people from this brand. Remember last winter Namm when Kemper announced nothing (which they have all rights to do), on these forums there were a lot of expectations months before, the excitement growing, all of this for nothing. If this was happening on an unofficial Apple fans forum, i would say this is normal and Apple has nothing to do with it. When this is happening on an official forum with management taking part in the discussions, i think it's not so welcome.
    I am glad they announced and demoed the reverbs at Summer Namm. I am glad they gave us the spring reverb preview which was a very good surprise. But when people were talking about an update "in a couple of weeks" and Kemper Gmbh perfectly knew that the ETA was to be counted in MONTHS if not SEMESTERS (i personally don't think this will be released in 2018), i think this was not the right thing to do, and i wonder if the word
    manipulation could be used.

  • Which people were saying "in a couple o' weeks"?


    I agree that if the company said this, that wouldn't be a good look, but somehow I doubt it did. IIRC, we were told that it's "working on" the update. I hope I'm remembering that correctly...

    I'm not urging or anything, but it would be quite a face loss on a company level, if they will not bring this and something more to NAMM '19 as a released update.

    How can it be a loss-of-face if there was no time commitment made?

    Or release the reverbs and demo the preset management as work in progress and they have a year to iron it out.

    If we don't have the software yet at that point, I agree that a demo of the 'verbs and whatever else would be expected, and that, IMHO, would not be an unreasonable expectation.


    Either way, if this happens "logically", we'll either have the software or be given more info at or by the time NAMM comes 'round. 8o:/

  • Like my grandpa used to say, "never look a gift horse in the mouth".


    I understand everyone's excitement - I'm definitely looking forward to the download.


    I think its awesome that companies like Kemper and Fractal give their existing customers FREE downloads and updates...as an existing customer, try getting something free from AT&T , Microsoft, or any of the cable TV networks.


    When the download arrives, I'll smile and say ' thank you very much' - not 'what took you so long'........it's free., they didn't have to do it.

  • Which people were saying "in a couple o' weeks"?


    I agree that if the company said this, that wouldn't be a good look, but somehow I doubt it did.

    CK said “weeks, not months” at some point either at NAMM or at the event at that music store in Nashville the night before. I believe it was said to the Tone Junkie guys but I’ll have to double check my sources.


    I don’t remember well, it’s been months ;)

  • I agree that if the company said this, that wouldn't be a good look, but somehow I doubt it did. IIRC, we were told that it's "working on" the update. I hope I'm remembering that correctly...

    How can it be a loss-of-face if there was no time commitment made?

    From a business point of view not having something a year after it was paraded on most impactful musical instrument fair, sends a bad message about the company itself. Dealers usually shy away from a manufacturer, who cannot deliver stuff shown a year ago. It just puts them is a horrible position, where they need to explain to their unhappy customers why they sold them the unit with the promise of great reverbs and it is not there. I'm not raging or anything, just wondering, how this will play out.

  • I do remember that at some point, someone from Kemper said it would be some weeks. Maybe they were referring to weeks in a "pregnancy" sense and we have to think that if everything goes right we would be talking about 38-42 weeks, depending on when the "baby" is ready to come out.


    It's been 27 weeks since we had the positive pregnancy test with the release of the spring reverb beta... so you can do the math...

  • I love release speculation threads. They're some of the best free entertainment a working class programmer can get. :)


    Here's what happens in most shops. A marketing guy walks into the programmer area (usually after a three martini lunch)...


    Marketing: "Hey, guys! I have this great idea for a feature everyone would love. How long do you think it will take?"


    Programmers: "Dunno. We've never done it before."


    Marketing: "Sure, I understand, but how long will it take?"


    Programmers: "Well, first you'd have to give us detailed requirements of what you want, then we have to do the design work, and after that we have to figure out how to implement that design in the code. Once that's done, we have to do the testing until we've fixed all the problems. So as you can see, there's really no way to give you an accurate answer until we're neck deep in it."


    Marketing: (now becoming impatient) "You guys are just being evasive. For the xyz feature I'm talking about, it really shouldn't take that long. I mean, we're talking weeks, not months!"


    Programmers: "Have you ever written code?"


    Marketing: "No, but geez, guys, it's just not that complicated!"


    Programmers: "Nonetheless, we can't take the cocktail napkin you've just handed us and tell you how long it will take."


    Marketing: "Well, I was just at a trade show, and I told them we should be able to have this out in a matter of months. So hey, guys - how long will this take?"


    There's not nearly as much fiction as you might think in this scenario . :)

  • This is how the world works.

  • It's not "bizarre". Quite the contrary; the vast majority of the most-successful companies in the industry say nothing.

    What Nicky said. And if they are dumb enough to say stuff, they're bound to get flamed for it one way or the other.


    My marketing / programmer joking aside, here's the reality of life in the software biz. Anytime you're doing something new, you almost never know what you're going to run into as you implement it. If I had a nickel for every time the Microsoft APIs didn't work as advertised, I'd buy you each a new Kemper, and a pint in the bargain. There are just a massive number of unknowns every time you crack the hood.


    But that's only the beginning of the fun. Whoever walks in with an idea, what goes out the door almost never matches that idea. You could get into the middle of it and discover there were unforeseen complications - so what do we change? Even more often, the idea tends to take on a life of its own, growing, morphing and changing as time goes on (much like a song might do). In the industry, we call that "scope creep," and it's an ever present player in these games. So even if you were dumb enough to give a public estimate, the minute the scope changes (or you run into complications), all bets are off.


    Another thing people fail to realize is the fact that estimate is not the same as guarantee. It's just a fancy word for guess. Ever take your car to the shop, get an estimate, but end up paying something different? That's because an estimate means, "We don't have all the facts, so we can't tell you how long it will take. But you want a number anyway. Okay, then let me just pull something out of my posterior that's by definition an uninformed conclusion, and there's your number." Usually, an estimate falls under the category of telling you what you want to hear. And yet, people take these numbers seriously.


    So here's what happens to the company foolish enough to tell you about an upcoming feature (which is high risk to begin with because you're giving competitors fair warning and your users a reason to speculate on release dates). Since there's no way they can really know how long it will take, any date they give will be missed. Now customers are pissed because you missed the date.


    Of course, shops know this will happen. Their solution? "We will hit this date, no matter what it takes!" Translation: "Programmers, you will now work 120 hour weeks. More if needed." Believe me when I tell you, you don't want the code I'm writing at three in the morning on a sleep deprived death march. But management of dubious intellect often insists on this anyway. Even so, the product usually ends up being late anyway (see: scope creeep), but now when it does come out it's going to be an absolute buggy disaster because you ran your programmers into the ground and rushed the release. Now your customers are pissed because a) you missed the date and b) your product sucks. By the way, guess who gets blamed for all of this internally?


    The solution? Anyone who's in the business knows what to do. Keep. Your. Mouth. Shut. When it's ready, then you talk it up and release it. Not before.


    Of course, marketing always wants to get the jump on the competition, so the problem with this is the risk that you might buy a competitor's product that's available today before my cool release comes out. So, they employ what's known as "vaporware." It's a preemptive strike against the competition. Here's how it works.


    "Sure, Company B has version 1.00 out, but our new 2.00 release will do everything plus fetch you a beer! It'll be truly amazing, and make anything you buy from Company B a total waste of money. Don't be a fool! Save your money, don't buy from Company B, and wait for our release!"


    At which point you're right back to customers being impatient for your cool new version, programmers working massive, sleep deprived hours because there's pressure on, and the end result still being late and bug ridden because you tried to rush it out the door.


    Kemper's new release isn't out as fast as we'd like? Excellent! I'm willing to wait because when it does release, it's probably going to be a very good product. I have enough bugs in my life as it is. :)

  • Not releasing something announced a year ago at NAMM sends a weird message IMO.

    Yeah, like they care about quality or something. 😉


    They did release the beta and people are free to use it. We are waiting on a new user interface / from them as well. It will all be released in good time and done right.