DI profile not even close

    Hi Aaron I tried to contact you via mail.


    Our developer asks me which AMP you tried to profile


    Is this it?
    https://www.guitarworld.com/ge…150-iii-50-watt-el34-head


    Unfortunately, I don't recognize the amp on your video correctly.


    As I read, you were able to profile another amplifier over this setup without any problems and you suspect the amplifier itself is not suitable for profiling, right?


    In the Kemper Merged Profilers Pack we have the EVH 5150 III Merged Rigs from all three channels.
    Michael Britt was able to make direct profiles of the AMP.


    From a distance it is really difficult to judge why you don't get exact images.
    First, I would recommend you try the Profiler DI Box. Maybe you can get that from someone else for a test?

    The amp isn't anything you would be familiar with. It's a custom build I bought here in Atlanta. The builder made probably less than 10 of them. It's called the "Bakos Amp Works Plus45". I know that doesn't help. The topology of it is similar to a JTM45 except it has EL34s and the tone stack is changed a little from the early Marshalls. He also went through a few output transformers before found one that was to his liking.


    I'm not sure why I haven't been getting your emails. I received the initial auto-response email when I first contacted Kemper. The email associated with my account should be - [email protected]

    Quote from absrec

    And here is a sample of the studio profile of the same amp. The one that says "merged" is the DI profile merged with the studio profile. Pretty much sounds like a sorry fuzzface to me.


    Hi!


    I have listened to the mp3's.
    Your Studio Profile is pretty clean, much cleaner than your attempts on the video.
    Have I got it right?


    Have you tried making a Studio Profile with the same target settings that you are using for the DI Profile?


    CK

    Quote from ckemper

    The studio profile is fully clean.


    The sound that you were attempting to profile was quite gritty.
    Correct

    The amp has some gritty-ness. It has a lot of clarity though. I normally run it with the presence knob up a good bit. This really brings the sound forwards and helps it cut through a band. The person in the front row usually doesn’t care much for it though.


    With the amp set to the setting, the studio profile is representing the mic’ed sound very well. Without touching the amp, taking a DI profile yeilds a sound that is nothing like the sound coming from the DI box. It’s very easy to tell with the Kemper’s ability to hear the A/B comparison by switching between Kemper amp & Reference Amp.


    Like I said the amp has some grit but it’s the kind that sits nicely in a band. When playing with other instruments or on a recording, it sound pretty clean. But with definition that cuts through. The amp doesn’t have multiple gain stages, per se but.... as we all know, the distortion is a product of the preamp, the power amp, the speaker, etc. Not just one thing. There’s a section in the Kemper manual where it is stated that chains with too many gain stages will cause issues when taking profiles. It makes me wonder if this is one of those situations. If there is something complex about this amp that is making it tough to profile. I don’t know. Just thinking out loud, really.

    I'm gonna chime in here only because I too have experienced this and my experience thus far might help...


    I have quite a few amps I've profiled in many configurations - Egnater TOL100, Marshall DSL, Mesa RA100, Mesa Mark V, Custom Audio OD100 Classic +, Bad Cat Cub II, Matchless Chieftain, EVH 5153 Stealth, a Two-Rock... you get the idea.


    I've profiled every last one, both DI and Studio, and the only 2 that give me fits are the EVH and the Chieftain.


    The EVH has GOBS of gain, obviously, so I always thought it was something with the amount of gain and the noise floor, but the Mark V has a ton of gain as well and seems to profile pretty well (admittedly, at the highest gain settings with the Bright switch engaged and letting the Treble really push through, I experience some issues like you describe, so I back off a little gain and compensate later.)


    The Chieftain will do it on a very low gain setting - but only if I have the "Brilliance" knob above the "off" position. As soon as I add ANY of that super high end to the tone, the profiling process starts to break down.


    So I do believe it has something to do with a certain frequency point.


    Coincidentally, today I tried doing a DI profile of the EVH (I use a Suhr Reactive Load) and running it through an EQ with a HF Cutoff at 8.5K (-24db per octave) and it didn't help.


    The first pass, the profiled tone is very midrange heavy and lacking in lows and highs compared to the original. After refining, it just becomes a blubbery mess in the low end and the definition will go from 10 on the first pass to somewhere usually in the 2-3 range after refining.


    I've never had time to chase this down and I don't necessarily expect a fix, but if it helps, perhaps I could put together some recordings or video to demonstrate the problem on my end as well. I've mentioned it before, just never had the time to really dig into it.

    Thanks, gtrgriff3. It’s nice to hear I’m not the only one that has this problem. It’s just a bummer that I happen to own one of the select few amps that present this challenge.

    How does it sound when you make a studio profile and turn off the cab section or run monitor cab off? It won't be exact but you can adjust, reprofile and test until you hit the sound you're looking for.

    I ran into something similar to this, not sure if the fix has been mentioned yet. But it appears that if you have a profile selected on your Kemper before you make a profile, and that original profile has a distortion or fuzz enabled in an effects slot, that same effect will be brought into the profile and will be enabled when you play back your new profile. However you can simply turn off the distortion and your profile will sound correct, it will not be added to the profile (only enabled in an effects slot).


    This threw me quite a bit while profiling an amp awhile back, but when I turned off the distortion, the profile sounded great. The tonality of the distortion in the OP's sound clips sound to me like there is a Green Screamer enabled during profile playback. The distortion from input clipping doesn't sound like that.

    I'm having the same exact issue as the above but with Peavey 6505+ in high gain setting. I started thinking that my unit was faulty?
    Very mid heavy, lacking bass and brightness.
    I have sent the query to Kemper support. I'll update if and when I get a response.

    Several things to try when profiling and you don't get the results you expect:


    1. Make sure all effects are turned OFF when you play back your new profile.


    2. Ensure you have the latest firmware upgrade in your unit. I recall trying Direct profiles awhile back with earlier firmware, but with terrible results. But newer firmware works great.


    3. I've found it is very hard to make a Direct profile of a signal chain if it has a compressor pedal inserted.


    4. Use profile refining sparingly, and sometimes you get best results without refining at all.


    Using the above and other tips, I only do Direct profiles now, and get the best results that way. It also allows the most accurate tone if a standard external guitar cab is used.

    Interestingly enough, though I can't prove it scientifically, I think some previous firmware versions may have worked better for higher gain settings. I have some older profiles I did 2 or 3 years ago and I think that in some cases they sound much better than what I get now with the latest (not beta, but latest production.)

    Quote from absrec

    The amp has some gritty-ness. It has a lot of clarity though. I normally run it with the presence knob up a good bit. This really brings the sound forwards and helps it cut through a band. The person in the front row usually doesn’t care much for it though.
    With the amp set to the setting, the studio profile is representing the mic’ed sound very well. Without touching the amp, taking a DI profile yeilds a sound that is nothing like the sound coming from the DI box. It’s very easy to tell with the Kemper’s ability to hear the A/B comparison by switching between Kemper amp & Reference Amp.


    Like I said the amp has some grit but it’s the kind that sits nicely in a band. When playing with other instruments or on a recording, it sound pretty clean. But with definition that cuts through. The amp doesn’t have multiple gain stages, per se but.... as we all know, the distortion is a product of the preamp, the power amp, the speaker, etc. Not just one thing. There’s a section in the Kemper manual where it is stated that chains with too many gain stages will cause issues when taking profiles. It makes me wonder if this is one of those situations. If there is something complex about this amp that is making it tough to profile. I don’t know. Just thinking out loud, really.

    I would strongly suggest that you try our DI Box. It does not contain any active components and no transformer.
    Since the difference between the Studio Profile and the Direct Profile is the DI Box, I suspect it to add distortion.
    If it does not work, you can just send it back to us.

    Quote from ckemper

    I would strongly suggest that you try our DI Box. It does not contain any active components and no transformer.Since the difference between the Studio Profile and the Direct Profile is the DI Box, I suspect it to add distortion.
    If it does not work, you can just send it back to us.

    There ya go, no risk at all and maybe an answer.. Good luck!

    Quote from ckemper

    I would strongly suggest that you try our DI Box. It does not contain any active components and no transformer.Since the difference between the Studio Profile and the Direct Profile is the DI Box, I suspect it to add distortion.
    If it does not work, you can just send it back to us.

    Hi Mr Kemper, I have tried eight different DI boxes and I have found the countrymen type 85 to be the very best of the ones I have tried, I have not tried the kemper DI box… The countryman takes a 9 V battery…
    Do you think it’s possible that it would even do better DI profiling than the one I have? Does the DI box really make this much difference? Thank you so much,