Will we ever see wireless...everything?

  • Not sure if this is the right forum for this question but I couldn’t decide where else to put it.


    Just curious...


    Do you think we’ll ever see a day where you show up to a gig, set down your Kemper, monitor, and remote...and just turn everything on and have it all connect wirelessly over WiFi or Bluetooth or some as yet unknown protocol?


    Possibly have everything powered wirelessly as well?


    I don’t know enough about the technology to know if it’s possible, but this is my fantasy lol.


    As great and convenient as my Kemper is, I still have a ton of cables to connect and set up takes some effort.


    Thoughts?

  • Ha, I agree with the setup taking some effort. I play using the 4 cable method, but I’ve got a large pedalboard and I play front of house in stereo so I’ve got at least 7 instrument cables. I have recently tried out the Boss Katana Air, which uses a wireless transmitter and there is ZERO latency - it’s remarkable! Boss just came out with a wireless transmitter and receiver, too, which already eliminates 1 cable. I think one day it can all be wireless, but I would settle for less cables at this point.


    Also, I believe wireless electrical power can also be a thing one day... I think Tesla (the scientist) had actually demonstrated it, but the tech was never developed (publicly/officially).

  • Hmm that Katana Air sounds interesting.


    As of now I’ve got:
    - power to KPA
    - power to monitor
    - power to midi controller
    - XLR to FOH
    - 1/4” > XLR to monitor
    - MIDI cable from controller
    - instrument cable to KPA


    I’m fine with this, but imagine reducing that down to just the 3 power cables. Or better yet....no cables. Just imagine! 8o


    Maybe someday when I’m ancient....which isn’t too far off!

  • Maybe the Kemper 2 will come with a wireless guitar receiver hardware built-in. Then you could buy the Kemper branded wireless transmitter (much like the Kemper branded remote) and eliminate that wire. I can totally picture how in the Input config there would not only be front connector or alternate input but wireless receiver as well. :D


    I think sending the high power signal to the cab / speakers is a bigger issue so I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.


    The thing is that unless the wireless rx or tx part is built-in we would not gain too much, you would still have to have a separate little rx / tx box with its power and connection to the amp.


    Generally I see no reason why "XLR cable with mic or line level signals" has to be the only "protocol" at most venues. If there was a wireless protocol implemented, one would only need to set channels on the PA gear and the amps (microphones) and everything would be ready for making noise.

  • You’d stilll need cables for your power unless everything were battery operated (heavy) or the whole stage we’re a induction charger (probably not great for pickups).


    Otherwise sure, you could probably even plug in current wireless tech to do this right now, I'm just not sure it’s much benefit above existing wireless setups, they allow you to wander the stage a little more but your amp doesn’t want to wander, there’s more chance for things to go wrong, signals to get hijacked, more latency, signal degradation, expense. You could just build a cabinet for your amp and Kemper so you only have the one plug to worry about...

  • Ha, I agree with the setup taking some effort. I play using the 4 cable method, but I’ve got a large pedalboard and I play front of house in stereo so I’ve got at least 7 instrument cables. I have recently tried out the Boss Katana Air, which uses a wireless transmitter and there is ZERO latency - it’s remarkable! Boss just came out with a wireless transmitter and receiver, too, which already eliminates 1 cable. I think one day it can all be wireless, but I would settle for less cables at this point.


    Also, I believe wireless electrical power can also be a thing one day... I think Tesla (the scientist) had actually demonstrated it, but the tech was never developed (publicly/officially).

    Tesla did develop this concept. There is a cable TV show called the Tesla Files where they recreated Tesla's experiment of wireless power.

  • Wireless everything? I hope not.


    Some folks, including myself, have to stay away from wireless "anything". I can't use WF, BT and mobile devices; the effects on me are huge. 5 seconds with a 'phone next to my head and I lose all focus and cannot sleep for 3 days. I can't even stand in a queue at the bank when folks are yapping away on their devices, although the effect in that scenario is never more than a single night's loss of sleep. It's not the 3 days sans sleep that's annoying (as in the first example) so much as the loss of mental focus. I'm literally useless during that time, not being able to implement a succession of tasks without first writing down what I need to do, and even then it's a PITA. I realise I only represent a small section of society, but the size of the slice of the pie will continue to increase as we pollute the "airwaves" ever more.


    Also, I believe wireless electrical power can also be a thing one day... I think Tesla (the scientist) had actually demonstrated it, but the tech was never developed (publicly/officially).

    This one's even-more ridiculous. The only way to achieve this is to generate an EM field orders of magnitude, commensurate with the difference in power transmitted (think guitar-level signal vs, say, 240v), greater than what we experience today.


    When people hold 'phones next to their heads, it seems to me that they've conveniently chosen to ignore the fact that the devices are transmitters designed to generate microwaves over distances of many kilometres. Why one would place such a device a few inches (or less) from one's brain is beyond me. It's not as if there's only a mild "cooking" of the brain as a result, a poofteenth of a degree Celsius or whatever. We're talking a raising of the brain's temperature by 2ºC in a very-short time. That's significant in anyone's book, and that's not to mention the interference with the brain's (essentially a complex CPU) natural clock rate, which is in the order of MHz as well.


    Bottom line for me is that I feel what I call a "zinging" of my brain when exposed to this stuff, a sudden increase in nervous and "conventional" energy and an instant loss of focus. I therefore worry a helluva lot about being able to stay "sane" in a world where "wireless everything" is constantly being shoved down our throats, where "convenience" is king at the expense of our future well-being.


    Rant over. Mileage will vary from nil to game, set and match, but figured there might be something in this for some. It's worth taking into account the potential hit when speculating about a Nirvana which IMHO represents an unrealistic outcome - ultimate convenience without a price.

  • I could dig the wireless idea except for the power for now.
    The idea of getting my nuts slowly cooked from the floor or wherever is not appealing.
    That being said, you never know. As Nicky pointed out, we are bombarded with signal all day and everywhere, so safety is important.
    Plugging in my FRFR and KPA electrically sounds like easy peasy.
    Wireless guitar to KPA, done. KPA to FRFR would be cool. KPA to foot controller, cool. KPA to FOH, cool.
    But I wouldn't trust WiFi, nor Bluetooth. Maybe a new PAN (Personal Area Network) with zero vulnerabilities to existing radio interference.

  • Your nuts should be fine from that distance, Dave. :D


    Studies have shown that placing an active transmitter in your pocket wouldn't be ideal 'though; a bit close to the family jewels, that. Several feet away, as would be the case in the example you mentioned, would be just-fine.

  • Sorry to hear about your struggles Monkey_Man. I do not have those experiences so I cannot relate, but maybe we could modify my wireless fantasy to be an optional add on for the KPA.


    Power is no big deal. I don’t mind plugging in my KPA and I have the powered version so I could get myself a passive FRFR monitor (those don’t require power correct?)


    But wireless guitar to KPA, wireless midi controller, wireless to FOH etc...if it could be done TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE!

  • I've loosely thought about trying to convert my kpa remote to wireless but havnt sat down and put a real plan together. Mostly just for fun and to screw around (used to be an electrical engineer so I dork out on side projects like that), but I't could amount to something oneday. Was thinking a rechargeable self contained deal with an arduino or similar to do the smarts and be stuffed inside the Remote itself, with a dirt cheap wifi access point or something on the kpa's end... obvious flaws in that plan, but cool to ponder.


    Anyway.. on the bigger topic of full wireless, I can see a benefit of bluetooth existing for audio on devices like the Kemper (KPA sounds great through a good home stereo btw. I run like that to practice at home in pinch, and it's suprisingly awesome ) so BT or other connectivity may be convenient to some for that. I'd use it


    Wireless mains voltage power everywhere? Nope. Cant see that being a thing for a long long time, but maybe eventually, way down the road. I'd hold onto those extension cables and power strips for a bit longer just to be safe though

  • How about a Kemper specific/dedicated PAN?
    Let's say $75 an endpoint.
    An endpoint could be ethernet for foot controller to KPA, or 1/4" for audio devices.
    All endpoints would be specific to a user, and therefore not be included with another Kemper player in the same band.
    You would "pair" devices in a Kemper module, two endpoints at a time.
    Two 1/4" devices paired would go from maybe Monitor out to FRFR.
    Two ethernet, would go from KPA to foot controller.
    Etc...

  • @Calaban I've got:
    - power to KPA
    - power to monitor
    - power to pedalboard (which is a midi controller and 2 effects units, so 3 powered connections to a powerstrip)
    - 2 XLRs to FOH from stereo DI box
    - stereo cables from stereo DI box to monitor
    - guitar cable to HX Effects (one of the effects units)
    - 1/4" send to KPA
    - 2 1/4" returns from KPA to HX Effects


    So yeah, I want a wireless solution too! I actually tried running my KPA to the Boss Katana Air (basically, I plugged the Katana Air's transmitter into the headphone out of the KPA) and it sent a latency-free signal to the Boss Katana Air. Pretty amazing, actually... (I actually made a couple of YouTube vids to show my setup). Nevertheless, I still have way too many cables.


    @Monkey_Man have you ever seen Better Call Saul? It's an American TV show and one of the characters is allergic to EM radiation... in any case, certainly I don't mean to make light of your situation, but I thought that was fiction!


    In any case, I would love a wireless setup due to my very complex setup - power-aside, I would just love to plug my guitar in, power up the KPA and pedalboard, and then just start jamming. I have tried time and again to reduce my cable count, but it's just not possible with my current setup.

  • Sorry to hear about your struggles Monkey_Man. I do not have those experiences so I cannot relate, but maybe we could modify my wireless fantasy to be an optional add on for the KPA.

    Perfect! I'm all for optional, mate. My rant was partly inspired by being forced to opt into this stuff, which does happen, but hopefully never with Kemper.


    @Monkey_Man have you ever seen Better Call Saul? It's an American TV show and one of the characters is allergic to EM radiation... in any case, certainly I don't mean to make light of your situation, but I thought that was fiction!

    I wish mate! It's fiction 'till it f#cks your brain up and keeps you awake for days. In my case the microwave (and EM) sensitivity was likely brought about by a serious bout of heavy-metal poisoning (5 really-bad metals), which destroyed my previous life and severely compromised my immune system. Extreme sensitivity to medical drugs, food additives and most "household" and "personal-care" products became par for the course for me age 14, and lingers on to this day (300 years later). :D


    Haven't seen that show, but it sounds like a hoot; I'll look it up thanks to you, bud. 8o

  • Ha, I agree with the setup taking some effort. I play using the 4 cable method, but I’ve got a large pedalboard and I play front of house in stereo so I’ve got at least 7 instrument cables. I have recently tried out the Boss Katana Air, which uses a wireless transmitter and there is ZERO latency - it’s remarkable! Boss just came out with a wireless transmitter and receiver, too, which already eliminates 1 cable. I think one day it can all be wireless, but I would settle for less cables at this point.


    Also, I believe wireless electrical power can also be a thing one day... I think Tesla (the scientist) had actually demonstrated it, but the tech was never developed (publicly/officially).

    The Boss doesn't have zero Latency.
    It probably is comparable to their other wireless products which have around 2,3ms of Latency.
    I own a wireless unit with the same kind of Latency and yes you don't feel that short of a latency. But maybe if you would use more of them in a single setup you would feel it.
    I normally like to compare the latency to the speed of sound.
    So 340m/s (this differs in gives us that one meter of distance from a speaker would so 1ms of latency would be the same as standing 0.34m away from a sound source.
    I never heard someone complain that they feel a Latency if they move away from their amps on a big stage. Let's even not make it that big. 10meters?
    Okay for 10 meters of felt distance we have a latency of 10/340=0,029s
    So anything under 30ms shouldn't be noticeable.
    For singers this can vary because they hear their own voice inside their head which can generate some Frequency loss because of phase cancelation.
    With most full digital setups you should get a Round-Trip-Time of about 16ms or less
    (wireless transmitter, Kemper, digital board, wireless InEar) if we say that all digital units have about 4ms of latency.
    Does anybody know if I missed something? Maybe this is not how we actually perceive sound. This is just my applying my sketchy physics knowledge.


    Wireless power is a totally different topic. I would think that everything that uses wireless power should have a battery so unit doesn't immediately power down if it is removed from the right conditions.
    For me having my floorboard powered is only difficult if the stage is poorly set up so I have to throw a power cord into some far distant land because the tech guy didn't read our stage plan.

  • Now we have digital wireless systems they are more vulnerable to multiple signals on stage. I never had dropouts with the older Sennheisers, but have on several of the 2.4ghz units at busy stages. As soon as you introduce people using phones, iPads for monitor control, in-ears systems and other bands setting up their own wireless, the units struggle for distance.


    So more wireless would need better bandwidth and also I'm not totally convinced what the long-term affect is of all the signals we are in touch with health wise.


    For me, the Kemper has cut down the amount of cabling because I have everything in one unit.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • To control my Kemper I've been using a wireless bi-directional MIDI-system for two years now and I am still pleased about it, it's totally reliable. For the guitar audio signal I use a "out of the box" wireless system.



    On stage my whole system is ready to go in less than three minutes. I just need to plug in one power cable for my rack and the FOH audio connection, then switch on the wireless floorboard... finished!



    For more information you may have a look at this thread:
    https://www.kemper-amps.com/fo…MIDI-footswitch-wireless/


  • Wow 120dB....that’s pretty amazing. I’m not knowledgeable enough to attempt this, nor do I have the time to learn it all, but great job!


    I would however pay Kemper well if they could design their own wireless version of the remote (with built in exp pedal!), and also develop their own wireless FRFR monitor, as well as the ability to send the signal wirelessly to FOH.


    Remember this is all just my fantasy! I have no expectation that Kemper will do this.

  • Wow 120dB....that’s pretty amazing. I’m not knowledgeable enough to attempt this, nor do I have the time to learn it all, but great job!

    Thank you, Calaban! :)



    I did not (and will not) check it, but for the Kemper Remote a "wireless ethernet bridge" might work.


    Components needed:


    - two wireless bridge adapters, e.g. "Vonets VAP11G-300"
    https://www.amazon.com/Vonets-…-Amplifier/dp/B014SK2H6W/


    - USB power supply


    - PoE injector (DC / battery powered), e.g. "EpicTinker Simple POE Injector"
    https://www.epictinker.com/Sim…-Injector-p/simplepoe.htm


    - suitable battery pack to supply the PoE injecor and one of the wireless bridge adapters
    I recommend "Eneloop Pro" rechargeable AA batteries


    [Blocked Image: http://up.picr.de/33215670vm.jpg]


    This is just a rough idea, not a guarantee for a working solution!