The impact of the Tube Screamer

    So I decided to do some profiling today, hooking up my Engl Savage to recreate a tone for an EP I recently tracked. I made a profile during the reamping sessions, but I found upon later playing that it wasn't accurate at all. I did enough note-taking to recreate it, and I ran into similar problems. Even though I know the Kemper has trouble with the Tube Screamer, I plugged my TS9 in anyway just to see if I could sneak it by. Multiple profiling attempts ended in having distinctly different profiles, to my disappointment. Even turning it off seemed to not help. Frustrated, I unplugged the TS9 totally, and got a profile that at the very least was similar enough to satisfy me.


    Now, my question is, does the TS9 impact the Kemper even without being on? Does simply having it in the chain throw it off enough to result in bad profiling? I've had the worst luck with profiling for a while now, and this time was the first instance since I first got it that I made profiles that were satisfactory enough. (I was so frustrated I had thoughts of selling it, but I hung on simply because if guys like Sneap, Lasse, or the Exodus guys approve of the Kemper clearly the issue is with me).

    I took a whole bunch, actually, here's one that demonstrates my point the best:


    https://vocaroo.com/i/s1m6VYkKRZwE



    Upon another listen, a lot of them are closer than I remember, but there's still a noticeable difference. Note that I didn't take any comparison clips of the final profile, because it was so close immediately that I didn't feel the need to record a comparison clip. A common thread across the board of the clips was exaggerated low end and a bit of fartiness in the palm mutes that didn't exist in the raw amp clips.

    The second half of the clip sounded not too bad. First half was certainly grainy? Are your cables tip top because it kinda sounds like a cable issue IMHO?

    I believe the Kemper is the first clip, real amp the second. This was recorded in the pre-refining stage of profiling, so it's the exact same signal chain between the two. If it was the cable then you should be able to hear it in both clips. Also, like I said, one I took the TS9 out of the chain I got one that was at least 95% there, close enough I was satisfied without even tracking a clip to compare them.



    It is possible, but I'm doubtful that's the answer.

    From personal experience I know that when a cable goes bad and you make the slightest adjustment it can go either way, good or bad. Give it a shot with some other cables, otherwise I'm thinking a support ticket with a backup of you KPA might be in order? Alternatively, maybe your TS9 is faulty? If it sounds great through your amp then this wouldn't be likely.

    Quote from dhodgson

    What is it about the TubeScreamer that makes it uniquely unprofileable, Christoph? This would be good to know, as more overdrive pedals are TS variants than not.

    All screamers profile accurately except for that precision drive since it has a built in gate.

    Quote from nakedzen

    Have you checked that you're feeding the Kemper the same signal level as the real amp when reamping? To me it sounds like you're clipping the input of the Kemper on your comparison clip.

    When I recorded that clip, it was in the comparison stage of the Profiling mode. The transition you hear is me switching the button manually. Unless I'm wrong, I don't see how I could have clipped the input of the Kemper without also having clipped the input of the Savage given that the Kemper was inbetween the amp and the guitar. If it was something to do with an input issue, it should have affected the amp as well, shouldn't it?

    Quote from thrashinbatman

    When I recorded that clip, it was in the comparison stage of the Profiling mode. The transition you hear is me switching the button manually. Unless I'm wrong, I don't see how I could have clipped the input of the Kemper without also having clipped the input of the Savage given that the Kemper was inbetween the amp and the guitar. If it was something to do with an input issue, it should have affected the amp as well, shouldn't it?

    It's possible you'll clip the A/D converter, which tube amps don't have. But it's easy to check? Do you get a normal sound if you reduce the signal level that goes to the Kemper?

    Quote from MentaL

    All screamers profile accurately except for that precision drive since it has a built in gate.

    I'd be careful about the word "all" there. There's a reason why the Tube Screamer is called out specifically in the Kemper docs.


    From the Kemper Profiling Guide, pg. 8:


    "Profiling with Effects in the Recording Chain


    Many guitarists get their signature sound by combining their tube amp with distortion pedals, booster pedals,
    and equalizers/filters. If you want to, you can keep these in the signal chain during the profiling process — they
    will all be accurately profiled as a part of the reference amp sound. However, there are a few exceptions: some
    distortion pedals use a special design that cannot be profiled accurately, for instance the Tube Screamer™.


    ...Also, the gate in the Precision Drive can be turned off.

    I own a ton of pedals, modded, tweaked varied and all stuff in between, I've yet to come across a single instance where the Kemper couldn't accurately capture a tube screamer. So, i think this part of the manual is obsolete.

    Quote from nakedzen

    It's possible you'll clip the A/D converter, which tube amps don't have. But it's easy to check? Do you get a normal sound if you reduce the signal level that goes to the Kemper?

    I'm not sure, and to be honest I'm not positive I'll have a way to check. I didn't save the profile showcased in that clip, and a later profile I made (with the same input settings, mind) didn't have this issue. It is an interesting question I'll try to explore further though. I can't remember what guitar I used for this profiling session, but one never goes past green on the input LED, and the other sometimes dips into yellow or red (on really hard palm-mutes, though I haven't noticed it as much recently). In the coming days I may tinker with this idea,

    Quote from thrashinbatman

    I didn't save the profile showcased in that clip, and a later profile I made (with the same input settings, mind) didn't have this issue.

    If you are able to recreate the issue contact Kemper support right away and save the profile, amp settings,etc.. Posting here might help but Kemper support will tell you right away if there is an issue.

    Quote from thrashinbatman

    Cool to hear, but then I'm curious as to why the other attempts ended in failure when removing the TS9 was the only thing that changed between profiling attempts.

    Don‘t know what the cause of it might be.
    We have done successful profiling with a TS in the signal chain switched off.
    But why bothering? Take it out of the chain then.


    You can be sure that it‘s not thr Profiler hardware failing but some issues with your TS not being fully bybassed.


    We recommend to setup your amp with an active Green Scream in the stomp section of the Profiler. Then profile your amp and make an A/B comparison with the Green Scream active.