Oh, god - not another Kemper comparison test

  • @IronWord absolutely. You've hit the nail on the head "splitting some fine hairs here" :)


    I totally agree, they sound slightly different but I don't think they are necesserily better or worse - just different and certainly tweakable to get a great result with any of them.


    As for the mix. Yes, it is a bit unusual with the bass on one side and guitar on the other. I did it that way because that's how the original Joe Walsh (James Gang) track is actually mixed so as I was copying it including note for note drums and bass I just followed through with the mix perspective too.

  • The Kemper works and works well, it's about 95% there for me, it's still missing a bit of something. FOr me i like to plug into an amp and in 10 minutes i can have a great sound, the constant tweaking and messing with things gets to me. I just got the ownhammer GnR cab set and it's pretty incredible. So here i go again....

  • Ok, so for me, just initial impressions only - 1 sounded like the real amp and sure enough according to your list it was. 2 was godawful. 3 was better but seemed to be missing the "space" and 3d aspect to the sound and felt like the tone knob was rolled back, softened transients, the rest were identical up till 9 where the tone changed again, the sound was good, defined, but again didn't have much space or 3 dimensionality, and 10 had a little more treble/transient sound.


    That's just my own opinions obviously. Listening on a pair of focal cms 50's connected to an old silver uad apollo.


  • I think tone becomes even more subjective when one listens to it in a mix. There's just so much you can do to a recorded sound, it's mind boggling.


    People will tell you, "no point polishing a turd". But seriously, how often do we see that? I mean, there are Kemper equal to Pod and Mooer videos/soundclips.


    In that regard, I got to contest the idea that there are no bad tones. Sure, you can't hear it in a mix. But what about the guitar in isolation?


    And I think that's one of the key things you'll notice in a lot of youtube videos. They seldom play the guitar in mono. And when you do hear it, it's buzzy, it's lousy, it sounds awful. Then they kick in stereo again and you're oohing and aahing.


    So with respect to your video, even though the guitar is in mono , I find the guitar difficult to judge really.


    Why? It's mixed really low. Low too fit with the other instruments, but as a result, even with my volume at max through simple ATH M50X headphones, I cannot really tell the tones apart.


    The bass and the drums are also much louder (at least perception-wise) in comparison to the guitar, so it makes it a bit more difficult to judge the tone.


    One things for sure, they all sounded very similar to me. I could barely tell which one was which and if you mixed up the order, I wouldn't get it right.


    @IronWord is right. In clip #2, the guitar seems to cut through in a way the others don't!


    Reminds me of this song by Marty Friedman. Apparently, they had one of those Boss digital processors (?) mixed in there.


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    Just goes to show that the sum of all the inputs on a track can be greater the inputs would suggest.

  • @nightlight i chose the track partly because it starts with a sectin of isolated guitar then added it into the track so it provides both perspectives.


    I’ve just listend to them again on my M50x and totally agree the guitar is way too low in these mixes. I never noticed it on my Adams straight from Logic. Or on a wuick losten on Shure SE435 IEM. But I must hav been really tired because it is definitely way too low listening back now.

  • What an incredible bit of work, Alan! Kudos, man. I know I'd never have the patience for all that!


    In terms of mixing - I never mix through headphones, always comes out 'off' to me. Studio monitors and I get the results I want. (I have Logic. Hate it. Perhaps it's just all those years on ProTools, the learning curve just doesn't justify the time, perhaps except for the drum tracks you can create. That is indeed easier in Logic of course).

    Gary ô¿ô

  • Very interesting. I'm using ATH M40x headphones here (which are supposed to be flatter response than the M50x).


    That cab clone isn't cheap lol £279-300+ here in UK. What this test has shown me is that using a real amp and virtual cab/ir loader gives a different and potentially viable sound, but, of-course, the Kemper alone can be just as usable. However, I've never owned a real tube amp due to living with people all my life, so, I've always used digital amps/fx since '97. The first proper amp I bought, the Marshall JMD102 also uses digital pre-amps with tube power section, which I used for gigging with.


    My question then is, does the cab clone do anything for the Kemper?

  • @nightlight i chose the track partly because it starts with a sectin of isolated guitar then added it into the track so it provides both perspectives.


    I’ve just listend to them again on my M50x and totally agree the guitar is way too low in these mixes. I never noticed it on my Adams straight from Logic. Or on a wuick losten on Shure SE435 IEM. But I must hav been really tired because it is definitely way too low listening back now.


    Don't get me wrong, Alan! It's a great test! It definitely is a valid comparison and the mixing is great!


    If it was intended as a song, it is perfect, I love the guitar on right and bass on left. Everything is crystal clear! Just that as a tone comparison, it is a bit hard to judge once everything starts going together.


    I agree with your conclusion as well. With the way the technology has improved, I would be happy to use any of those solutions.


    In fact, I have a lot of similar gear myself - Mark V with cab clone, reactive load box and IRs, Kemper, real amps with cabs and mics. This test reinforces the fact that I have good taste in gear haha :)

  • @prsgary


    Thanks Gary.


    Yes, I agree. i never mix on headphones. The mix was done quckly on my A7x but it wasn’t real a mix I just left averything straight other than a little reverb and tried to level match all the guitars to exactly the same comparative volume. I was obviously payong so much attention to gettng the guitar volume levels all the same that I lost focus on how loud the bass was :S


    I feel the same way about Pro Tools ;)


    I mean, I started on Logic and it does what I need. pro Tools may be better but its now just way too much work to learn a new system now given my limited needs.


    Cheers


    alan

  • @Karl yes, the cab clone isn’t cheep here in the UK. All I meant was it was free to me as it was built into the amp and I was buying the amp whether it had cabclone or not.


    I have never tried it with the kemper but you could always use it with a direct profile (or make a profile from he cabclone). Given how much I hated the results from the cabclone I don’t think I will be rushing to try it though ^^

  • @Karl yes, the cab clone isn’t cheep here in the UK. All I meant was it was free to me as it was built into the amp and I was buying the amp whether it had cabclone or not.


    I have never tried it with the kemper but you could always use it with a direct profile (or make a profile from he cabclone). Given how much I hated the results from the cabclone I don’t think I will be rushing to try it though ^^

    One thing to note is that the Cab Clone on the Mark V: 25 doesn't have one mode that the standalone one does, i.e. vintage cabinet.


    What cab clone cabinet were you using for this test? Closed or open back?


    Everyone says cab clone sucks though. I tried it once, when I got the amp. Never used it again.

  • Everyone says cab clone sucks though. I tried it once, when I got the amp. Never used it again.

    I had that same amp... for a while. Did the exact same thing with the cab clone as you. Hated it. I originally bought it just as an emergency backup, but ended up selling the amp just cause I never really used it; the Kemper was too reliable :thumbup:

    Gary ô¿ô