Kemper DI profile sounds different when saved

    Hey all,


    I have been doing some DI profiling and come across this issue.
    When A/B-ing the reference amp and the kemper during the profiling process, the profile sounds very close to the reference amp (ie the way it should be).
    However, once this profile is saved and played in the browser mode the sound is completely different - it's not even close to the original. Flat and flabby bass, mid through the roof and flat treble.
    I re-checked all my connections use different cables etc. with no better results. I guess they could not have been the issue since the profile sounds perfect when played during the profiling process.
    I don't make many profiles but I don't recall having this issue the previous time I did. Makes me think maybe something is broken?
    Will appreciate any ideas.



    Thanks.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Playing through a different / the wrong Kemper cab, maybe?

    What is that supposed to mean ? I don't get that question. I'm having the same issue on matter what Amp I profile with any volumes/gain stage.
    During the profiling session , they are identical. You play the profile back on the browser mode using the same real cabinet 4x12 and trying to match up the volumes. The real amp always sounds brighter and clearer than KPA and has defined treble. while KPA has this extra bass... I refine 3-4 times to get rid of the bass with no success ....


    I'm suspecting that the power amp is affecting the sound. If i take that DI profile and go out (from monitor out) of the KPA to the return input of my real amp to the cabinet, I get the sound that i want...

    Thanks benmars800,
    That is actually true. I never tried that before. But when routing that same DI profile to the original amp's power section...boom you get the glorious sound.
    So somehow the DI profile is not replicating the power amp section of the real amp? I'm pretty sure this is not meant to be. I remember reading somewhere that the DI profile (of a tube amp) is not suitable for playing through a real tube amp because it will be a tube amp through a tube amp.


    Any more ideas?

    Quote from benmars800

    What is that supposed to mean ? I don't get that question. I'm having the same issue on matter what Amp I profile with any volumes/gain stage.

    I clarified in my edit:

    Quote from Monkey_Man Later

    EDIT:
    Ah... I see you tried different cabs. Just thought that somehow when you switched to browse mode the cab was different.

    Pressing the output button is showing `Monitor Cab off` checked twice and pure cabinet is off of course case the cabinet is completely off. This is a DI amp profile. the cab is completely off.


    Clean Sens & Distortion Sens at set to 0.0dB. Not sure what else we should check for ?

    Quote from benmars800

    Pressing the output button is showing `Monitor Cab off` checked twice and pure cabinet is off of course case the cabinet is completely off. This is a DI amp profile. the cab is completely off.


    Clean Sens & Distortion Sens at set to 0.0dB. Not sure what else we should check for ?

    Same here. Pretty sure the Cab is off and pure cabinet is off.


    I have sent this query to Kemper's support. Will update if and when I get a comment/advice from them.


    Till then, keep scratching my head.

    Joe, I also have the powered kPA and I know exactly what you are talking about, when I plug it back through the power section of reference amplifier everything sounds glorious through a 4×12 cabinet… But the powered section of the KPA is not perfect, I will leave it at that…
    I love my powered KPA for live gigging use with in ear monitors and no cabinets on the stage, nothing can beat it! It is absolutely the best tool I have ever experienced… but through a 4X12 cabinet, it does not quite sound (or feel) like the real tube amplifier that it profiled…

    I wish if Kemper designed a new product line like: An external power tube amp that does does not break up (no distortion) at high volume, stays clean , as i've heard from other users that was the reason why they went back and play on the real tube amps... ;)

    Ok. Here's what I found:


    Peter from Kemper support recommended me to get a Kemper DI to see if it makes any difference, because it is fully passive....as per ckemper's comment above.


    However, regardless the Kemper DI, I found out that I made two errors.


    One, I had both the Kemper and the amp connected to a cab when profiling (one to left speakers and the other to right speakers). To make things worse, the 4x12 cab had different speakers on the left and right channel (which I found out after opening the rear panel). So this pretty much confused and fooled my ears.
    Two, I used Two Notes Torpedo Captor and connected the cab to the attenuator (to save my ears when profiling in a confined space). The attenuator (and I believe all attenuator products out there) changes the sound. It makes your amp sounds brighter. As a result, I ended up setting the amp to a darker setting. Kemper profiled exactly this. So when I played the profiled sound, it sounded...well..dark. Then I compared this with the amp that is connected to the attenuator which sounded....awesome. Duuuh.
    So when everything set up properly, the profiled sound is pretty damn close to the original. I thought I noticed the difference in the dynamics when playing it but maybe it's because I know which one was which. Probably can't tell in a blind test.


    Anyhow, I ended up getting a Kemper DI as recommended and did not find any major improvements compared to the Two Notes. At least when comparing them through a cab. Will check through IR when i get the chance.


    All in all, still loving my Kemper. It's an excellent live and recording tool. If lost, I would get another one in a heartbeat....despite all the other competitors these days. Their support is also awesome. The local distribution here in Melbourne Australia is also very helpful.


    I'm still having another issue with the pitch/whammy....but that's another topic.

    I have used the countrymen type 85 Up until recently when I received the Kemper DI box, The Kemper seems to take a more realistic profile picture whereas the countrymen seems to add a bit of the low-end and a touch of gain, it’s hard to explain…
    I have not been refining my profiles lately and there is more bounce and fluid feeling in the profile, more amplifier reaction type feel… But, I am missing that tight low-end that I achieve when I refine profiles… it seems to be a trade off…
    Both are extremely good and now I have tested nine of these, and these two are definitely the very very best, with a ‘slight’ edge to the Kemper.
    Using any of my DI profiles through any of my Bogner 4×12 cabinets, it’s still not quite there yet… It’s close, but there is a certain fatness and solidness that is missing… The real amplifier still is different and better in feel and tone…
    Take two chainsaws, the real amplifier sounds like a chainsaw with much larger teeth, the Kemper sounds like the same chainsaw with ‘fine/smaller’ teeth....
    All this which I speak of is using my powered KPA through 4×12 cabinets,


    ...for live gigs, everything is perfect, through in ear monitors and through PA, incredible machine… I am just still struggling with the powered unit into
    4X12 cabinets…
    :thumbup:

    Quote from joetomb

    The local distribution here in Melbourne Australia is also very helpful.

    Yes! I've known (Innovative Music owners - the Kemper importers) Steve and Julie Lincoln-Smith for decades. Their Kemper tech knows the unit inside-out too.


    We're lucky here in Melbourne in this case, rare as it might be. :D

    I wonder if a significant portion of the difference you're hearing and feeling is more in the amplification and less in the profile?


    For the powered Kemper, you're using it's built-in solid state amplifier. For the tube amp, you're using it's power amp.


    Maybe try testing your Kemper line-out feeding into the "return" of the fx loop of your tube amp if it has one, bypassing the preamp and EQ on your amp and going straight into the amp's tube power amp and see if that gets you closer to what you hear from your tube amp?


    That would eliminate the difference between Kemper's on-board solid state amp and your tube amp's power amp.