How essential is a 4x12 to getting good metal profiles?

    Yell at me a bit please, I think I need a couple of nice cabs... :thumbup:


    ... Like I need a hole in my head :cursing:


    Seems like I'm missing a lot of punch that I could get with some better low and low mid response.


    I've been contemplating this for a while, so it would be great to get some opinions.


    Would a 2x12" suffice? And by suffice, I mean would it be as good?


    I saw some math that suggested it would be exactly as loud as a 1x12", it's just that perceived loudness would increase due to more coverage area and speakers. True or false?


    I'm seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on a VHT 4x12 loaded with Celestion V30s. Should I pop a couple, or maybe three of those suckers out to replace with different speakers so that I would have a "cab for profiling"?


    There's also the option of a V30 loaded Mesa Boogie Rectifier Cab. I think a couple of people are selling 2x12" recto cabs too. Better? Worse?

    I suppose it might be relevant as to what you will use the profiles for and or what others might want/need to do the same.


    Quick Neanderthal answer is, if it's perceived as louder then, louder = more good. 8o


    I have days when I'm scrolling through cabs and I land on a 1x12 or 1x10 and because there's no context because I'm playing by myself, whatever frequency curve at that moment ends up getting tweaked anyways so round and round I go until I realize I'm just trying to make something work instead of just using something that works, if that makes sense.

    Quote from Awesome_Elvis

    I suppose it might be relevant as to what you will use the profiles for and or what others might want/need to do the same.


    Quick Neanderthal answer is, if it's perceived as louder then, louder = more good. 8o


    I have days when I'm scrolling through cabs and I land on a 1x12 or 1x10 and because there's no context because I'm playing by myself, whatever frequency curve at that moment ends up getting tweaked anyways so round and round I go until I realize I'm just trying to make something work instead of just using something that works, if that makes sense.

    An interesting thing that though. I read that John Petrucci uses just a 1x12" Thiele cab on stage to monitor himself in addition to IEMs.


    From Johnny boy:


    "The main cabinets and heads onstage are not on.


    "They are there just to show people what I'm using because everything is mic'd in a corner at the back.
    "Actually, sometimes we have MIDI controlling these heads as well, so you'd see the amps change channels even though they're not being fed!
    "So as I have no sound coming off stage and I use in-ear monitors, it doesn't really feel like I'm playing guitar, unless there's some thump.
    "These little 1x12s resonate with the floor and give me feedback when I need it. Plus, I get to put my foot on it, that's the number one thing! [Laughs]"


    Exit Johnny boy stage left.


    I think that's damn good advice for all the guys going IEM nowadays. Get something to move some air on stage as well so that you feel like you're playing guitar :D


    Also, in a live setting, I often wonder whether the audience would be able to tell the difference between a miced up 1x12" and a miced up 4x12". After all, only one speaker cone is miced, more often than not.


    In a recording setting, I have very little practical experience, but I imagine the cab would make a much bigger difference here. More resonance, more space for the cones to operate in, more headroom due to less power going to each speaker.


    I got to get myself a 4x12"! Just to experiment.

    I have a marshall 1960a cab, A DXR10 and an openback palmer 2 x 12 v30's. Without a doubt the palmer is the best of the bunch for me with metal profiles, I play in a maiden tribute band and my tone is savage. Happiest ive been with the kemper

    It depends on how you mic the cab.
    For most rock purposes, and especially metal, odds are you are going to super close mic ONE speaker anyway. So the other speakers in a cab are largely irrelevant.


    A properly loaded single 12 mic’ed closely with a good mic is all you REALLY need to profile.

    Quote from wwittman

    If I understood the question, it wasn’t about performing with it.


    It was about using it for PROFILING.
    And for that, it only matters what speakers, and how many, you actually mic.


    Walt, doesn't the internal space of the cabinet have a bearing on the tone you can coax out of a cab, even for profiling? I found that a lot of the profiles I like have a larger cab, rather than a smaller one.

    Well, when you put your face right up against even a small cab, it sounds pretty-big. It's all relative IMHO, AJ.


    I mean, it wasn't exactly metal, but Angus Young had a bunch of cosmetic Marshall cabs stacked up on stage while he ran a "small" close-mic'd combo out back for his sound.


    I doubt anyone ever complained that his tone lacked balls.

    I believe Petrucci uses 112 Recto cabs rather than Thiele but they were definitely 112 when I saw him last year.


    On stage I hate 412 cabs due to how beamy they are and how big a dead spot there is close to them (cancellations between the 4 individual speakers) the sound doesn’t come alive until the front row of the audience who end up looking like the old Maxell advert in order for me to be happy with the sound on stage. (I’m not a metal guy thoug so others may feel differently)



    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    As for recording many of the classic guitar tones that sound absolutely huge were small amps and small speakers just cranked. Early Zepplin is pretty much all a Telecaster and a little Supro combo.


    Ah, a Recto. Thanks for that information.

    ...doesn't the internal space of the cabinet have a bearing on the tone you can coax out of a cab, even for profiling? I found that a lot of the profiles I like have a larger cab, rather than a smaller one.“



    A LITTLE.
    but once you push a microphone up within an inch of the cone of a single speaker, those differences are near meaningless.

    In this case I think, and as in most things with things of this nature, it's all about the subtleties right? To some extent. So IF there even is a hair of a difference, then that subtlety is noticed. Being that it's a subtlety AND the possibility of it also being subjective in flavor, makes for a difficult case. Best scenario is try it yourself. Even if someone has a Ah ha! But what about this moment, that's up for debate for sure but in the end it was still their moment and that instills all those levels of variables that come along with that. It's early, I hope this makes sense lol

    That’s of course if you can actually (blind) HEAR those subtleties on the mic.


    I think the differences in the character or individual speakers and speaker cabs have a lot more to do with liking one over another than the actual number of speakers.


    I generally don’t like the sound of 10’s for bass guitar, for example, but I’ve heard a particular 6x10 that sounded terrific. And yet the same company’s 8x10 didn’t sound anywhere near as good.
    THat doesn’t mean by any means mean I like 6x10’s better than 8x10’s in general. Just that this ONE cab and speaker combination was special.

    I'm going to go ahead and disagree with a lot of the thoughts here. On paper you could assume the differences are meaningless, but in practicality, it matters. Cab size, cab type, room, what else is in your room, all of it. I tend to blast my amps loud and close mic with a 57; I hear big differences there so you'll definitely hear differences in any other application such as more distant approaches.

    I’m not saying there aren’t differences between cabs.
    But those differences are as a great between various 4x12s.
    It’s not the size or number of speakers that makes them different once you close mic.


    It’s just that they all have personalities based on cab design and speaker choice.

    Quote from wwittman

    I should add that I suspect that if I’d had the chance to mic a single 10 on that exceptional cab I’d still be disappointed.

    Agreed. I reckon the "soffit-mounted" effect plays a role in such things.


    I played several smaller-but-multi-cone cabs back in the day that surprised me for bass. They tended to have less welly, as you'd expect, but projected very-well and exhibited less muddiness than the larger-coned enclosures in general. I put it down to the aforementioned ganged-soffit thing, where I figured the many membranes effectively combined to approximate one huge one.