Doubts about usage possibilities

  • Hi, I'm a possible new owner of the Kemper... it depends if my doubts will be deleted or not [Blocked Image: http://headrushfans.com/images/smilies/tongue.png]
    First of all I've a PRS Archon 100 with a Mesa Recto vertical 2x12 and I'm going to use the Kemper on its own in all those situation in which is not practical to use the Archon or when I don't want to carry everythig. In all the other situations my main live Kemper utilization would be as effects unit so no amp/cab sim, only effects. However I'd like to be able to do certain things, but I'm not sure that all of them are possible so I'll write them here and then I hope that someone of you could clear my mind [Blocked Image: http://headrushfans.com/images/smilies/biggrin.png]
    So just to be clear remember that my intention is to use the Kemper with my amp and the 4 cable method and with the Kemper remote to control everything.


    1) I'd like to use my amp and cab on stage with all the effects that I need from the Kemper and then send to the PA the same sound, but with a cab sim in the chain; so I don't have to mic my cab on stage. Is this possible ?
    2) Let's say I'd like a different clean or drive sound. I'd like to use only the power amp of the Archon with an amp DI profile from the Kemper thru my cab on stage and thru a cab sim to the PA. Is this possible ?
    3) I want to record with my amp and a cab sim from the Kemper without using the Mesa 2x12 and using headphones or monitors as referense for what I'm playing. Just like you do with the Torpedo studio for example...


    Thanks for your help.

  • 1) I'd like to use my amp and cab on stage with all the effects that I need from the Kemper and then send to the PA the same sound, but with a cab sim in the chain; so I don't have to mic my cab on stage. Is this possible ?
    2) Let's say I'd like a different clean or drive sound. I'd like to use only the power amp of the Archon with an amp DI profile from the Kemper thru my cab on stage and thru a cab sim to the PA. Is this possible ?
    3) I want to record with my amp and a cab sim from the Kemper without using the Mesa 2x12 and using headphones or monitors as referense for what I'm playing. Just like you do with the Torpedo studio for example...


    Thanks for your help.

    My best advice is RENT one. Coz when you suppose how to make a set up , full of doubts, it means you need to experiment. Which is great ... But you'll end up using it another way if you experiment , based on your style your ears and the result of the sound test you'll make with the real thing in your hands Goodluck

  • Following the specs of the kpa...this can all work...however...theres a bug in the kpa that impacts your scenario 1


    1 as long as you dont rely on power amp overdrive, hook it up as a usual 4cm, put the effectloop in 1 of the 4 effectslots “pre amp”, turn off the amp section, global setting “cab Sims off on monitor output, monitor output to amp return, main outs to foh......but.....
    I noticed a bug in the kpa, that when you disable the amp, toggling the cab Sims on/off has (very minor) effect on the monitor output. Which should not be the case when you have the cabsims disabled for that output. I never investigated further cause i never use the kpa this way. It was confirmed by 1 other forum member.


    2 no problem, switch from a preset from scenario 1, to a “regular” preset. Its actually my prefered set up, running the kpa into a return of an amp....foh gets the cabsim.
    3 same as scenario 1 right?


    Maybe consider to profile your amp for scenario 1?

  • My best advice is RENT one. Coz when you suppose how to make a set up , full of doubts, it means you need to experiment. Which is great ... But you'll end up using it another way if you experiment , based on your style your ears and the result of the sound test you'll make with the real thing in your hands Goodluck

    What are the options of renting a Kemper?

  • Sorry for stating the obvious but you may want to consider just profiling the Archon with the cab and not carrying those anywhere.


    I think a Kemper going straight to the FOH plus a powered monitor speaker on stage would be a significantly simpler setup.


    For your 2nd use case, I had to check the manual and for the "monitor" output you can disable the cab simulation so you are good to go. Check page 34 in the manual.

  • Thanks for your help. Sorry but I don't understand what do you mean with "as long as you don't relay on power amp overdrive". In my #1 scenario I want to use the Archon as it is, so clean and drive channel of the amp with the Kemper used as effects unit. Then I want to play thru my cab on stange and the FHO gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab.


    The #3 scenario is not like the #1. I want to record using only the Archon without the real cab and using the Kemper as cab sim and effects unit. So the hypothetical chain is Archon - Kemper - Audio interface.


    Of course I could profile the rig, but here's the point: I've already considered to use only the Kemper in all those situation in which I don't want/can use the real amp, so asking these questions I just want to understand if it's possible to have a hybrid setup in some situation. A hybrid setup that obviously meets my needs...

    Sorry for stating the obvious but you may want to consider just profiling the Archon with the cab and not carrying those anywhere.


    I think a Kemper going straight to the FOH plus a powered monitor speaker on stage would be a significantly simpler setup.


    For your 2nd use case, I had to check the manual and for the "monitor" output you can disable the cab simulation so you are good to go. Check page 34 in the manual.

    Of course I could profile the rig, but here's the point: I've already considered to use only the Kemper in all those situation in which I don't want/can use the real amp, so asking these questions I just want to understand if it's possible to have a hybrid setup in some situation. A hybrid setup that obviously meets my needs...

  • You can use the Kemper in a hybrid situation, i.e just using the effects.


    In scenario 1, if you use the amp section of the PRS and just the effects, you can't somehow route the PRS through the Kemper into FOH ( if I read this correctly). If the question was can i just play the Kemper thropugh a cab and route that also through FOH without miking up - definitely!


    If you want to use the PRS as well, the Kemper is only acting as an FX unit. You can't use the PRS as an effect in the Kemper end to end chain.


    I understand you want to think about the these routing options but:


    1) No point buying a Kemper just for fx. Its main strength is profiling and amp realism. Some people still do it but I see no point including a valve amp in your signal chain - it frees you up like no tomorrow!
    2) As said, profile the PRS and this all goes away
    3) You may ( as I did) find an amp sound even better than your current amp

  • Sorry for stating the obvious but you may want to consider just profiling the Archon with the cab and not carrying those anywhere.


    I think a Kemper going straight to the FOH plus a powered monitor speaker on stage would be a significantly simpler setup.


    For your 2nd use case, I had to check the manual and for the "monitor" output you can disable the cab simulation so you are good to go. Check page 34 in the manual.

    This.

  • Thanks for your help. Sorry but I don't understand what do you mean with "as long as you don't relay on power amp overdrive". In my #1 scenario I want to use the Archon as it is, so clean and drive channel of the amp with the Kemper used as effects unit. Then I want to play thru my cab on stange and the FHO gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab.
    The #3 scenario is not like the #1. I want to record using only the Archon without the real cab and using the Kemper as cab sim and effects unit. So the hypothetical chain is Archon - Kemper - Audio interface.


    Of course I could profile the rig, but here's the point: I've already considered to use only the Kemper in all those situation in which I don't want/can use the real amp, so asking these questions I just want to understand if it's possible to have a hybrid setup in some situation. A hybrid setup that obviously meets my needs...

    Of course I could profile the rig, but here's the point: I've already considered to use only the Kemper in all those situation in which I don't want/can use the real amp, so asking these questions I just want to understand if it's possible to have a hybrid setup in some situation. A hybrid setup that obviously meets my needs...

    If you are pushing the power amp of the archon past its headroom to get your amp sound, so distorting your power section, the 4 cm rig is not gonna work.
    Idnk the amp..If its 30w or above your probably good.


    Scenario 3...unless I dont get it...seems the same as 1 for the foh signal. Pre amp of archon, into kpa, effects, cabsim.


    Again, its all possible, only thing to further investigate is the behaviour of the cabsims to monitor out...which is bugged when you switch off kpa amps.

  • Maybe I'm explain the #1 scenario badly, so let's make an example to make everything absolutily clear. Let's say I've the Archon on stage with the Mesa 2x12, the Kemper is the effects unit so I'm playing with the Archon and the Mesa using the Kemper for example to have a delay and rever effects. This is happeing on stage. Then I would be able to send this sound as it is to the FOH, but becouse I don't want to mic the cab on stage, I'd like to use a cab sim on the Kemper instead of the real cab that I'm using on stage, so the FOH gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab. Is it more clear now ?

  • Maybe I'm explain the #1 scenario badly, so let's make an example to make everything absolutily clear. Let's say I've the Archon on stage with the Mesa 2x12, the Kemper is the effects unit so I'm playing with the Archon and the Mesa using the Kemper for example to have a delay and rever effects. This is happeing on stage. Then I would be able to send this sound as it is to the FOH, but becouse I don't want to mic the cab on stage, I'd like to use a cab sim on the Kemper instead of the real cab that I'm using on stage, so the FOH gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab. Is it more clear now ?

    I think you explained it very clear to begin with, and imho a perfectly good usecase for the kpa....If you plan to make use of the profiled amps in other situations.


    If you are not planning to use profiled amps at all...then you may be better of with other/cheaper units.

  • Maybe I'm explain the #1 scenario badly, so let's make an example to make everything absolutily clear. Let's say I've the Archon on stage with the Mesa 2x12, the Kemper is the effects unit so I'm playing with the Archon and the Mesa using the Kemper for example to have a delay and rever effects. This is happeing on stage. Then I would be able to send this sound as it is to the FOH, but becouse I don't want to mic the cab on stage, I'd like to use a cab sim on the Kemper instead of the real cab that I'm using on stage, so the FOH gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab. Is it more clear now ?

    No you can't do that unfortunately.


    What you have described effectively goes like this:


    GTR>Archon Preamp>Kemper FX only>Archon Power Amp>Kemper CabSim and Mesa 2x12 simultaneously. You can't send the output form the Archon Power Amp back into the Kemper. You can only send the Archon FX send to the Kemper as it isn't a loadbox.


    However, if what you meant was; to split the signal in 2 after the FX so that you send one signal through a Kemper Amp sim and cabinet sim BUT send the other signal back out to the onstage amp (now two totally different power amp and speaker chains) that could work. You would need a very clean profile because you already have distortion from the Archon pre amp. You might be able to profile the power amp only of your Archon for this example but I don't know how well it would work as a large part of the profiled sound will be the interaction between pre amp and power amp stages which would be lost when making this profile.



    Also, if I understand your plan correctly, you can't do exactly what you described in #3 either. In this case you want to run the Archon power amp but have no speaker blasting at home (presumably because of noise restrictions). At the moment you solve this be sending the Archon speaker out into the Two Notes Live which acts as a load box and IR loader. The Kemper is not a load box and cannot accept speaker level input signals. Fortunately you don't need to do any of this though as you could simply profile the amp and record that at home without any of the other complications.


    As some others have said already, I think you are massively over complicating the set up unnecessarily. If you want to run a reall amp with FX and use a speaker IR for FOH instead of micing a cabinet I don't think the Kemper is the best solution. I would consider a Helix or Axe FX and possible keep the Two Notes Torpedo Live. However, I would save all the hassle and money and just profile the Archon and use the Kemper live with the Boogie Cab on stage an a profile of the cab going to FOH.

  • Andy, I understand what you are trying to do.


    However please take it from the ultimate analog-loving guy, until you actually hear the Kemper you cannot quite understand how game-changing it is.


    If you profile you amp / cab with the settings you like, it is extremely unlikely that you would want to haul around the actual amp / cab for a gig. The Kemper is really that good. We could argue if it is 100% or 98% but none of this is relevant. I have lifted tube amps and guitar cabs and the weight difference will decide the live setup in favor of the Kemper.


    So forget about the effects loop, if you have a friend who has a Kemper, just try it.


    Also, @Wheresthedug is correct, all of the heavy lifting (literally in this case) would be only for you, unless you are mic-ing the cab. Otherwise the Kemper "pre-amp + effect" signal is going to the FOH and only you are listening to the magnificent Archon power amp distortion and the cab.



    If you only want effects, like others have said, there are way cheaper options.


    Side-note : I do have an Archon profile on our Kemper and it is one of our favorites. I love PRS guitars as well (my son plays a semi-hollow custom 22) so I know where you are coming from in terms of that tone!

  • Maybe I'm explain the #1 scenario badly, so let's make an example to make everything absolutily clear. Let's say I've the Archon on stage with the Mesa 2x12, the Kemper is the effects unit so I'm playing with the Archon and the Mesa using the Kemper for example to have a delay and rever effects. This is happeing on stage. Then I would be able to send this sound as it is to the FOH, but becouse I don't want to mic the cab on stage, I'd like to use a cab sim on the Kemper instead of the real cab that I'm using on stage, so the FOH gets the same sound but with a cab sim instead of the real cab. Is it more clear now ?

    That was what I understood and my comments stand. You cannot some how feed the Archon amp sound through the Kemper to go FOH.

  • That was what I understood and my comments stand. You cannot some how feed the Archon amp sound through the Kemper to go FOH.

    So if I use the Kemper as effects unit I'll have to mic the cab on stage, because there's no way to use the Kemper as effects unit and, at the same time, adding a cab sim to go to the FOH...

  • So if I use the Kemper as effects unit I'll have to mic the cab on stage, because there's no way to use the Kemper as effects unit and, at the same time, adding a cab sim to go to the FOH...

    you can to a degree


    When you hook it up as 4cm the signal to foh will be:


    Archon pre amp—> kpa effects—>kpa cabsim—> foh
    What is missing is the effect the power section has.
    If your sound is depending on that...its not gonna work.
    If you use the amp in a way that is within the range of the power section headroom...my bet is its gonna work fine.


    You can test by recording your amp using the send of the loop into a daw...and apply an ir.


    There is no way to feed your speaker out into the kpa, and doing so include the effect your power amp has in the foh signal.

  • Ok so just to be 100% sure, sorry if I'm annoying you and if I'm too persistent. This is what I'm trying to do with the Kemper:



    This video shows exactly what I'd like to do even with the cab sim thing....

  • @AndyT89 i’ve just watched the video. He is simply running basic 4CM as you would with a traditional amp/pedal board but with an extra preamp from the Headrush as an overdrive/distortion pedal effect.


    Most of what he describes can be done in the Kemper but it isn’t what you described in your question. The guy’s description in the video is a little confused in places and some of what he says isn’t quite right. For example he talks about “replacing” the pre amp of the Quilter with the Headrush pre amp. This isn’t happening. What is really happening is he is running the two preamps sequentially and changing the order. They are both still on.


    However, the main thing about the set up that differs from you original question is that he is basically using the Quilter amp as a clean pedal platform rather than as a significant part of the overal tone. You would get similar results running the Headrush or Kemper into a clean power amp and speaker as he is not relying on the drive characteristics of the Quilter. He is NOT capturing the final signal path from the Headrush AND amp to send to FOH. In order to capture the full path to send to FOH you would need to stick a mic in front of the cab.


    The signal going to FOH is Gtr>HR FX and pre amp>Quilter PreAmp>HR FX post>HR CabSim.


    The signal In the room is Gtr>HR FX and pre amp>Quilter PreAmp>HR FX post>Quilter Power Amp>Quilter Cab. To get that to FOH you need a mic or a loadbox with IRs like a Two Notes Torpedo.


    Depending on how you use the real amp those two signal paths might be quite similar or could be worlds apart.


    The way to achieve The true glory of your Archon is simply to profile the Archon with your settings and speaker. Then use that in the Kemper chain along with the Kemper FX. Send one signal to FOH and the other to your onstage monitors. If you really want a traditional guitar cab on stage for the trouser flapping oomph effect just bypass the cab section of the profile in the monitor (alternarive out in the HR video). You will then have the same sound going to both FOH and stage without all the cables and without having to carry your Archon to gigs.

  • Ok so just to be 100% sure, sorry if I'm annoying you and if I'm too persistent. This is what I'm trying to do with the Kemper:



    This video shows exactly what I'd like to do even with the cab sim thing....


    You can hook up your cables like in the video.
    You can toggle your amps preamp out of the chain by disabeling the kpa effectloop in a preset...and put a kpa amp on. So it allows you to use both kpa amps, as well as your amps preamp.


    So again:
    Check If your preamp signal + cabsim represents your sound (No power amp in chain)


    consider the kpa bug:


    Kpa amp disabled
    Cabsim global disabled on the monitor out
    Cabsim on on main outs.


    In this scenario, switching cabsim off to foh....it does effect the signal to monitor out...its subttle...but it should not. If you are set on 4cm only, this would be a reason for me to consider other options.