Headphone output better than SPDIF output when recording

    Quote from Gforce guitar

    I never tried to record a headphone output with a special wire...Headphone out ---special wire---to preamp
    But why not...
    Maybe you'll realise that its the proximity of headphones on your head that create that extra touch you try to find on speakers
    Good luck

    ... or if the recorded tone still sounds like ass it'll indicate that the issue lies with the interface, it's settings or your DAW.


    Not possible you've got a trim plugin or similar set to mono instantiated on the default amped-guitar track?


    How about possible bleed from another mixer channel into the amped-guitar track's bus?

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    ... or if the recorded tone still sounds like ass it'll indicate that the issue lies with the interface, it's settings or your DAW.
    Not possible you've got a trim plugin or similar set to mono instantiated on the default amped-guitar track?


    How about possible bleed from another mixer channel into the amped-guitar track's bus?

    We record 2 raw and amped tracks (using GIT/STACK). and pan amped tracks L/R. No Trim plugins. Pretty sure there is no bleed.
    When we are listening and comparing tones ( via Kemper/Focusrite), we make sure both are set to stereo. We only use GIT/STACK when recording.
    We're even making sure when we mix/master/export we listen to the track on 3 or 4 different systems from BOSE to stereo system, and even play on the car stereo.
    So we know it's not just proximity of headphones that is the difference here.
    I've just listened to another vid which tests 10 Metal Tones and they sound killer and they use the same Scarlett interface wit no EQ.
    Apart from the SPDIF settings there isn't much you can change on the Sarlett. Mainly just routing.
    Also for basic recording there isn't much more we can teak in Cubase.
    We obviously use compression, EQ, reverb VSTs etc when mixing.
    Space Headphones Only is turned OFF. I can see difference on Scarlett when space level changed.
    It's like we need a magic setting 'Make SPDIF output sound like Kemper Headphone output'
    Is it possible to record headphone output to record some proof so you guys can hear what we are talking about?
    I think we'll also enter a support call with the Kemper guys.

    I also just added SPACE to the X effects channel just to exaggerate the sound.


    Again sound from Kemper completely blows away the sound sent via the Scarlett.


    Bought new gold plated RCA cables just in case and to eliminate that cause. Should come tomorrow.


    ???

    With the appropriate cable you can record from the HEADPHONE output. If the recording still sounds bad, you know, it's not the PROFILER.


    On the other hand you might want to change the source of the SPDIF Output to "Master Stereo" for the moment, which is the same source you hear on the HEADPHONE output. Deactivate all other effects (compression, EQ, reverbs,...) in your recording gear, so that you just compare apples to apples.

    Yeah we are going to try that tonight


    We'll also try and recording/listening in cubase when using Master Stereo. We always initially hear with no effects (which actually should enhance the sound so should in theory sound better)


    If anyone's remotely interested this is another track which SHOULD be crushing with our chosen Mesa Boogie DR profile but just isn't - This one has a solo (pre recorded by Theodore Ziras).


    Iliad - Age Of Darkness

    If you're using RCA instead of bona fide SPDIF there will be problems, however minor they may seem.


    And FWIW, I've got a nice setup as far as home studios go and I absolutely do not like the way the SPDIF sounds. In theory it should sound identical and without chronicling the process I did put SPDIF head to head with the analog master out and on my setup it's a blatant difference. There is a warmth in the analog and the SPDIF is tinny. It's not the Kemper, just my combination of bits not responding well to the digital input.

    Just a guy who plays a little bit of guitar.

    Quote from Gforce guitar

    I never tried to record a headphone output with a special wire...Headphone out ---special wire---to preamp
    But why not?...


    Quote from Burkhard

    With the appropriate cable you can record from the HEADPHONE output. If the recording still sounds bad, you know, it's not the PROFILER.

    Thats what I say ... record the output of headphones (find a special wire , cable, for that) at least it will be an interesting experience

    Ok so we played and recorded some rough guitar with 3 metal riffs. (Ibanez with EMGs using a MB DR2 profile)
    Each riff is played twice and recorded in mono.
    The first is SPDIF.
    The second is the headphone out into Focusrite analog socket.


    The headphone output has way more depth.


    We've normalised the sound so they are roughly equal in loudness.


    Headphone vs SPDIF


    That's why we know something is ridiculously wrong in our set up. SOMEWERE?????


    We are getting new high quality SPDIF cable tomorrow. Maybe it's that?

    Headphone out sounds louder to me.
    The third SPDIF clip has a click. Maybe a problem with the clock? I doubt that you will get a better sound with better SPDIF cables but if there is a problem with the clock, better quality cables might solve that.
    EDIT: The second headphone clip sounds "roomier" to me. If I recall correctly, you have already ruled out any kind of reverb / space etc. on the headphone out, right?

    Quote from mrs-zambesi

    EDIT: The second headphone clip sounds "roomier" to me. If I recall correctly, you have already ruled out any kind of reverb / space etc. on the headphone out, right?

    First clip is the real dry tone with no fx. Headphone out has something turned on like the space or whatever. It's very easy to hear. It's definitely not dry

    Quote from adywhittell

    This one has a solo (pre recorded by Theodore Ziras).

    Theo rocks. He's been "big" in Greece for a long time, as you'd know, but is pretty-much unknown elsewhere.


    Great that you were able to organise the guest spot for him.


    Quote from VoodooJef

    If you're using RCA instead of bona fide SPDIF there will be problems, however minor they may seem.

    It depends upon the cable quality and length, Jeff.


    I experienced flawless performance many years ago using 2-foot-or-less cables. 1 metre upwards, not so much.


    The dead giveaway is always if you hear a pop. Even the occasional pop indicates that the clocks have drifted out-of-sync.

    Regarding the space I already said I have added that to the X slot to exaggerate the sound and sound is still miles better through headphones than sound going through Scarlett (when listening in stereo).
    We also removed 'SPACE Headphone Only'
    If the clocks are going out of synch and Kemper is the master what can I do about that?
    Does that indicate poor quality/too long cables?


    I set SPACE on output to zero
    I then added space in X slot instead (a suggestion from another post)
    We then output via Stack and still the sound getting to Focusrite is chalk and cheese to the sound from headphone which I can assure you is gobsmackingly gorgeous!!!!
    This is so frustrating.
    We are hearing our PERFECT metal sound and finally seeing the deal with Kemper and just how good it can sound.
    But we can't record the sound we are hearing. (I won't be recording the headphone output lol)
    SO CLOSE!!!!


    We are so grateful for the suggestions.
    We have 2 albums to re-amp when we get this right.
    Guest solos are also being provided by Nicolas Alberny (Gorod - he's amazing) and Ben Wiltshire (Anderton's music) - that lad knows TONE and finally Aaron Beeken (Synaptik).
    So you can see we want the best sound possible. (As would anyone else of course having paid 1500 for an amp) :)

    Quote from adywhittell

    If the clocks are going out of synch and Kemper is the master what can I do about that?
    Does that indicate poor quality/too long cables?

    Usually, yes.


    Far-less-likely is a hardware / software(?) fault with the Kemper or interface, but I've not even heard of such a situation.

    Since the HEADPHONE output sound is fine, have you checked the MAIN OUTPUTS with source set to "Master Stereo"? The sound should be identical. And I see no reason not to record from the MAIN OUTPUTS XLRs. Reamping is possible via analog outputs and inputs. Or why does it have to be SPDIF?

    Burkhard A few days ago we compared the Analog and SPDIF outs earlier and we concluded they were almost identical. But no we are not commited to SPDIF - Most of the re-amping tutorials seemed to use SPDIF.
    However we also recorded SPDIF vs Analog last night and it came out like this:-


    SPDIF first. Analog Second. Analog is fuller.


    SPDIF vs Analog


    We have ordered some XLR cables and we will compare to the headphone out.
    It's re-assuring for someone to say the sound should be identical.

    Quote from adywhittell

    SPDIF first. Analog Second. Analog is fuller.

    Yes Analog is fuller ... just a bit more low mid frequencies...
    But I could take the SPDIF through an EQ and get exactly the analog sound in 10 seconds
    I could also get a lot of different tones with the EQ (and I wont even talk about waves plug ins etc)
    So whats the big deal here???? Is it beta testing ? it's seems so serious and complicated...
    Take the SPDIF or analog an EQ it the way you want
    Right?


    Or yes try to record the headphone output, why not ?
    Otherwise we'll be talking about it til christmas

    Sorry dude I'm not giving up on this.
    The difference between the analog and spdif is not as great the difference between spdif and headphone output.
    I posted that as a response to being asked why SPDIF is essential.
    It's a ridiculous situation being forced to record via the headphone socket.
    Someone stated above the sounds being recorded SHOULD BE IDENTICAL to the Kemper Headphone sound which is amazing. I mean TONAL PERFECTION
    The headphone output isn't 'fluffed up' to sound better than the actual output as also stated in the thread.
    We've created a support call and hope we can get more luck from the Kemper support guys.
    I don't want to go on and on about this but surely the way a forum works is 'Guy asks for suggestions on how to solve a problem'
    Try it. If it works then great, we all move on. Believe me we are frustrated beyond words and want to move on.
    But I haven't tried anything yet that means we hear an identical sound to the Kemper headphones in Cubase.
    I'm after a 100% solution that means I can use the Kemper how it's designed to be used. Not a botch job.
    If I'm right you are saying 'It's near enough. that'll do' (Neither of those examples are as good as the headphone output)
    I'm hoping the answer from support won't be 'F*ck it. That's near enough.'But hey, we appreciate all input. :)
    ps I've just linked this thread as the support call. Got a reply already which we are working one (within a day. Pretty good)

    Very interesting! I would only like to add if it would be possible to swap out the Scarlett for another (higher end) audio interface. I also have the 18i8 and wonder sometimes about the quality inside. Just a thought and would eliminate the middle man in the picture. Good Luck though, hope you get it nailed down.