Headphone output better than SPDIF output when recording

    We tried to do a fairer test by making sure all effects were removed and we recorded headphone vs SPDIF again.
    But we noticed there wasn't much difference again with all effects removed.


    But headphones through Kemper STILL sound great.


    HEADSCRATCH


    We had a hunch.
    Lets bypass focusrite and record headphone output through the computer mic.
    We played back through headphones on computer (NOT Focusrite).
    Now we're getting tones like the kemper headphone output.
    We then listened to the other samples we had done on computer headphone output and Focusrite headphone output.


    So conclusion:-


    The headphone output of the Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 sounds like SHIT.


    I always thought of Focusrite as flagship when it comes to audio devices (used throughout the world in studios etc) (250 quid - Ok you can pay much more but the computer headphone output sounds better)
    So this conclusion has astounded us.
    Obviously the mix of the track I uploaded as an example clearly isn't up to scratch as we're mixing via monitors and headphones through the focusrite.
    So no issues with Kemper, Cables or Cubase.
    Thanks to all who have contributed.
    We'll try and post a track when we are happy with the mix and sound.


    We'll also remember to listen via Kemper when sampling new profiles from now on.

    @adywhittell f I recall correctly that seemed to be the conclusion from the previous thread I was referring to also. i.e. the headphone out on the interface just wasn’t very good. I can’t remember if it was a Focusrite too or something different but basically the headphone out on interfaces in general probably aren’t up to the same standard as the Kemper one.


    However, I’m still a little confused. I thought that you had already compared the SPDIF signal to the Kemper headphone out signal over monitors (i.e. not usin the Focusrite headphone out at all) and concluded that the headphone out sounded better.


    Anywy, glad you got it sorted and ended up with the sound you want.

    Same here, Alan, else I would've said from the get-go that in the opinions of many the headphone amps, convertors or both suck ass on not just this one, but IIRC a few of Focusrite's interfaces.


    At any rate, it's great that you've finally managed to nail down the issue, Andy!


    By the way, here's the sort of thing that prevented me from stating the above:


    Quote from adywhittell

    We're even making sure when we mix/master/export we listen to the track on 3 or 4 different systems from BOSE to stereo system, and even play on the car stereo.

    I suppose what might've happened is that bad-EQ-and-otherwise decisions were made due to the monitoring source, so everything ended up sounding like ass.


    An unprocessed comparison of the headphone, S/PDIF and main outs should've yielded very-similar results no matter the monitoring source. Sure it all would've sounded crappy from the F'rite 'phone socket, but as quoted above there were the other systems which, IMHO, if you're familiar with them (a given or you'd not check mixes on them), should've told you not only that the Kemper sources were nearly-identical to each other, but that they in fact sounded good.


    Just trying to make sense of it...

    I am little slow today but what is the conclusion?


    The recorded sound samples that were posted clearly sounded better in the headphone case. What do those have to do anything with the Focusrite headphone output?


    Also, direct recording the Kemper headphone out sounded better than recording it through the (analog) input of the Focusrite?

    Apologies if earlier posts have confused the matter.
    To answer the issue comparing the headphone output to spdif, we listened to the feedback and thought mybe it was clouded by some effect included with that output.
    So the test today we made sure it was dry for both outputs.
    Hence this brought us to the actual conclusion.


    We do test the exported track on lots of systems.
    But the fact is the mix was simply sounding a bit shit.
    We have tweaked the mix via headphones via the focusrite I must admit (I know you should use monitors which we do have)
    But my wife and younger son insisted we didn't blast through monitors at 11pm at night for some selfish reason :)


    But now we know what we know where we are and can bypass the focusrite and can get suitable profiles that sound better in the mix


    We'll post a new mix shorty so I can at least finish the thread on a positive note.


    The experience picked up from this post alone will mean that for any future issues, we'll be able to explain ourselves a bit better without sounding like a complete inexperienced newbie, We've learnt loads more about how the Kemper works.

    TEST NO 1 (only the beginning)


    I just listened to headphone output and compare it to a recording of SPDIF
    and YES this is true headphone out sounds much better


    So I think Kemper will have to take care of this in a future update


    Next test will be to record the out of headphone and compare it to a recording of the SPDIF with the same RE-AMP and guitar track.

    Quote from adywhittell

    This mix is sounding a LOT better


    Iliad - Fallen Angel (New Mix)


    Not perfect but sounding a lot better than the first post. Helped by knowing the tools we have.

    Brilliant IMHO, mate. Plenty of imagination there. The guitar tracks sound totally-appropriate too. Well done!


    Took a listen to Age of Darkness too whilst I was there. You guys rock; I'm very-impressed!


    Quote from Gforce guitar

    TEST NO 1 (only the beginning)


    I just listened to headphone output and compare it to a recording of SPDIF
    and YES this is true headphone out sounds much better


    So I think Kemper will have to take care of this in a future update

    If you mean that you listened directly from the KPA's headphone out, all this shows is that it sounds better than your usual monitoring chain. It proves nothing, and is probably due to the KPA's 'phone out being superior to the latter.


    Quote from Gforce guitar

    Next test will be to record the out of headphone and compare it to a recording of the SPDIF with the same RE-AMP and guitar track.

    Indeed, this would be a fair test.

    Hi


    Just in case...are u using SPDIF cable (75 ohm) ? That clicks on first recording seem be a synchronize issue of cable : normal RCA cables usual give that kind of click issue.



    Keep rocking!

    Edited once, last by Farko63 ().

    @Farko63 We definitely have SPDIF cable (better quality ones coming today)
    @JSB Headphones are Sennheiser HD449
    @Gforce guitar We're a bit tested out at the moment but great idea.
    @Monkey_Man Glad you like the material and took the time to listen to other tracks. It's all about the music after all :)


    Album 2 has even stronger material (neither released yet):-


    Iliad - The Poisoned Machine (inspired by Exodus - Deliver Us To Evil)


    The amazing thing about the kemper is we can record tracks on a home studio to much higher standard than was possible years ago.


    Not sure if anyone has heard of Spiral Architect but the singer and guitarist are guesting for us on album 2.
    As is shredder Frankie C who won the TV shred contest judged by Alex Skolnick.
    I'm sure there are far better guitarists than us on here.
    But we are pinching ourselves that we can get guests like that. Kemper rules!
    We just take a raw track from a guest, re-amp guitar through Kemper and we have a world class solo.
    What a great time to be a muso. :)


    ps We need 2 more solos for album 1 if anyone is interested.

    @adywhittell This is (Poisoned Machine) my favorite!


    The drums are great and the chugging of the guitars is awesome. I think the soft synth definitely balances nicely against the guitars.


    I feel this is going to be a hit from the album even more than the "SPDIF vs Analog" song :D

    If you are a bit careful with your gain you can easily plug your Kemper headphone out into your interface and record that.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

    Quote from musicmad

    If you are a bit careful with your gain you can easily plug your Kemper headphone out into your interface and record that.

    the headphone output delivers the same signal as the main outs when they are set to master stereo. You can even activate the space function for the main outputs too if you want to. Of course, none of this will change the actual sound quality of the headphone amplifier in the audio interface.

    musicmad, thanks, I tried to record the kemper phones output into my scarlett8i6 yesterday, and it still sounds far worse than directly listening to the kemper phones, almost sounds the same as monitoring the main outputs through the audio interface . So, is it because scarlett8i6 is not good, do I need to buy a high end interface ?

    Quote from rolandzhao

    musicmad, thanks, I tried to record the kemper phones output into my scarlett8i6 yesterday, and it still sounds far worse than directly listening to the kemper phones, almost sounds the same as monitoring the main outputs through the audio interface . So, is it because scarlett8i6 is not good, do I need to buy a high end interface ?

    Try activating "space" for all outputs first as suggested. And then listen again through your focusrite in headphones.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM