2 expression pedals - possibilities

  • hello forum


    i was reading a lot here to find an answer to my question... i‘ll have my kemper remote soon and i wonder how many expression pedals i need for my live setup.


    i would like to stay mostly in one bank and add fx with the stomps 1-4.
    the effects i need: distortion, wah, tremolo, reverb, delay and maybe some special stuff.
    now i would like to be able to control delay feedback, tremolo speed and reverb lenght by an expression pedal (only one at a time)
    but also use wah/volume (but not the same time as the other effects going on).
    is this doable with just one pedal, if
    yes how?
    i guess i‘ll need 2 pedals, one for volume/wah and the other for morph.
    and the rest would be a smart layout of the effects on rigs 1-5.
    is this possible what i‘m trying to achieve this way?


    thanks a lot for you thoughts on this!
    theo

  • The vehicle to dynamically control any continuous parameters like delay feedback, tremolo speed, reverb length and any others is Morphing. You can do this via expression pedal, which is set up as Morph Pedal. You can decide, if


    a. you use the Morph Pedal to also control Wah effects (option "MorphPedal to Wah")
    b. you use the Wah Pedal to also control Volume Pedal (option "WahPedal to Volume")


    The functions Morph Pedal and Volume Pedal cannot be combined on one expression pedal, as this would create logical conflicts. In other words, if you want to control all three pedal nodes Morph Pedal, Wah Pedal, and Volume Pedal via expression pedal, you need to afford two expression pedals at least.


    However, there might be possible compromises just dealing with one expression pedal:
    1. Instead of controlling Morphing via expression pedal, you could control it via the Rig Buttons of the Remote with ramp times flexibly set by Rig. In that case, you would just require a Wah Pedal which also controls Volume Pedal.
    2. Depending on what you want to achieve with Volume Pedal, perhaps a Wah Pedal Booster effect is sufficient or morphing the Rig Volume is sufficient. In those cases a Morph Pedal also controlling Wah would be sufficient. You would skip the Volume Pedal function.


    If you use Morphing to control delay feedback here and tremolo speed there you need to set this up in different Rigs and load those accordingly as the Morph Pedal shifts any parameters set up for Morphing simultaneously in the Rig currently loaded. Or you use the Effect Buttons I-IIII on the Remote to activate/deactivate the effects (delay, tremolo,....) accordingly. So, there are multiple ways to set this up. You need to see, which fits your needs best. I'm not sure, if its realistic to "stay mostly in one bank" as you might require more Rig changes to switch the functionality of your pedal(s). E. g. you have one Rig with an active Wah effect and your Wah Pedal controls this Wah effect; you have another Rig with the same sound but no active Wah effect and your Wah Pedal controls Volume now ("WahPedal to Volume" activated). The less pedals you have the more Rigs you might need to effectively separate the combined pedal functions.

  • @Burkhard there are a lot of guys (myself included) who want to control certain parameters “on the fly” with an expression pedal separately from programmed morphing. For example, one pedal to control gain (could be the morph pedal) and another to control Delay level or feedback. At the moment there doesn’t seem to be any way to achieve this with the KPA and remote; although it looks like it would be possible via a midi controller and c.c. commands. It would be great if Kemper could add the ability to control more than one parameters independently. The best way I can think of would be to add multiple morphing “channels”. Similar to midi channels but for Kemper language. That way I could set one pedal to Morph Channel 1 and control Gain, add a volume boost and some mids but set another pedal to Morph Channel 2 and assing that to delay level.

  • Such "multi-channel Morphing" would add a lot of complexity and potential for error. At the end of the day "normal" users still need to understand what is going on. Normally you use only one foot to control pedals at a time anyhow.


    It's interesting that you come up with an example (gain on one pedal and delay level on another), which is perfectly doable with the existing capabilities. Place your Volume Pedal pre amp to control gain in that particular Rig (or globally) or configure a Wah Pedal Booster pre amp and control Delay whatever with your Morph Pedal.

  • Thanks a lot for your answer burkhard! so i still have some more questions...


    - so i could morph for example reverb time, delay feedback and rotary speed all within one rig and one pedal - even if the effect is not active? and when the effect is activated it would then change that parameter?


    - can the effect buttons on the remote be set that only one effect at a time is active? (for example that effect 2 switches off when i activate effect 3 on the remote)


    - i read that you can switch effects with one effect button. is there a way i could use multiple effects one one effect switch on the remote, but none would be active when loading the rig. and it would then switch from none to effect one and when pressed again to effect 2 and then back to none?


    - could i use the tuner switch on the remote to activate effect x?


    thanks a lot!


    theo

  • can this be understood as "if there are no morphed parameters within a rig, the pedal controls wah"?
    I'm interested in "if there's a wah, the pedal controls wah, else it controls morph". Achievable ?


    Cheers

    If "Morph Pedal to Wah" is selected, the Morph Pedal controls both nodes simultaneously:
    a. all continuous parameters set up for Morphing in that Rig,
    b. all Wah effects with Pedal Mode other than Off or Touch in that same Rig.
    So, if there is no Wah effect in the Rig or its inactive or the Pedal Mode is "Touch", you only hear the pedal moves affect Morphing. And if there are no morphed parameters in that Rig or these are only in Modules currently inactive e. g. Module REV, you only hear the effect of Wah.


    The same logic applies, if you select "Morph Pedal to Pitch". And if you even select both "Morph Pedal to Wah" and "Morph Pedal to Pitch", the Morph Pedal can control Morphing plus Wah effects plus pedal pitch effects ( e. g. Pedal Vinyl Stop) all simultaneously.


    So, in principle the more you intend to combine pedal functions, the more you might need to switch between different Rigs or switch effects or groups of effects on/off so that your pedal effectively controls only Wah or only Pedal Pitch or only Morphing. We don't intend to automatically deactivate the Morphing function while a Wah effect is active as people might want to combine the Wah effect with a bit of gain increase, vibrato, treble, whatever….


    By the way it doesn't take long to check this out.

  • @theoknzg


    The Morph Pedal as such morphs ALL continuous parameters set up for Morphing in the Rig simultaneously. So, yes, also the Mix of a Delay, which is currently switched off will be morphed. However, you won't experience that until you activate the Delay. Then the morphed parameter will take effect immediately assuming the Morph Pedal has not been pulled back to heel position.


    Be aware, that the speed of the Rotary Speaker is not a continuous parameter (yet) and therefor cannot be morphed. Rotary Speaker Speed works like the speed switch of a real Leslie cabinet, where you just toggle between high and low speed and the engine accelerates or slows down accordingly.


    You can store and load Rigs with effects modules switched on or off. You can also assign multiple effect modules to the same Effect Button of the Remote. The Effect Buttons of the Remote toggle the on/off status of all assigned Effect Modules based on their current state. Example: Modules A, B, X, and DLY are assigned to Effect Button II. A and X are currently on while B and DLY are currently off. If you hit Effect Button II, A and X will get deactivated, while B and DLY will get activated. So, you practically toggle between two effects scenes. A circular toggling between more then two effect scenes is not possible via Effect Buttons. But why not simply store complete Rigs with effect scenes A, B, C,... in Slots 1, 2 3,... and use the Rig Buttons of the Remote to load complete Rigs. Performance Mode offers space for 625 complete Rigs. There is no need to press all sound and pedal permutations you possibly need in just 5 Rigs.


    The TUNER, TAP and LOOPER switches of the Remote can be reassigned to other functions globally (not by Rig) if not needed. So, yes, the TUNER switch could be used to switch Module X on/off. In that case you could still activate the Tuner via the chicken head knob or the volume pedal in heel position.

  • Such "multi-channel Morphing" would add a lot of complexity and potential for error. At the end of the day "normal" users still need to understand what is going on. Normally you use only one foot to control pedals at a time anyhow.


    It's interesting that you come up with an example (gain on one pedal and delay level on another), which is perfectly doable with the existing capabilities. Place your Volume Pedal pre amp to control gain in that particular Rig (or globally) or configure a Wah Pedal Booster pre amp and control Delay whatever with your Morph Pedal.


    Although I do have two feet I agree that even I only use one foot at a time ;)


    However, having a pedal permanently assigned to a function on a dedicated pedal is still much more user friendly in many cases than trying to deal with the complexity of thinking what is going to be controlled now from a multi function pedal.


    To be honest, I only used that particular example because it is one of the most common questions I have seen in the forum and (particularly) on the Facebook user group. Despite all of the advice people suggest for this situation I have never once seen the Wah Booster suggested as a solution until now. What that tells me is that the current situation isn't intuitive for many "normal" users. Many users (despite reading the manual several times) still think certain simple things can't be done with the KPA.


    I don't think multi level morphing would be a significant complication in terms of user understanding. In fact I think it would be a massive simplification for most. The Kemper mindset, while brilliant and in many cases a totally work of genius, is often difficult for "normal" users to get their "normal" heads round. Many of us "normal" users have typical musicians brains rather than engineers/programmers brains.


    I do accept that multi level morphing may, however, be a significant challenge in terms of system development so is probably very low on the list of priorities at present. Another even simpler way of achieving the desired outcome would be to add a new pedal type for Midi C.C. That way users could assign one pedal to Morph as normal and one or more pedals to control a specific Midi C.C.


    It appears that there is a significant number of users who would like to use a single performance with up to 5 rigs all night; or at least for the vast majority of the night rather than program a huge number of rigs/performances to get through a set. In my case I have a very chaotic musicians mind (unlike your very organised and logic process) and struggle to think far enough ahead to set up all the rigs I might need. I and many other "normal" users prefer a simple set up with a limited number of basic rigs which can be tailored to the situation on the fly. So as an example, I often use a single delay and reverb all night. I simply turn them on and off with one of the footswitches as needed and set the tempo on the fly with the tap tempo button. One delay preset can cover everything from Slapback to long delays for solos. However, the amount of delay required (mix) also varies not only from song to song but even during songs and can change depending on the rest of the band and the venue. It often comes down to whether you play in a loose improvised setting or a very structured set list and tight defined arrangement environment.


    I like to have delay mix constantly accessible on the fly. However, I might want to set some other parameters to be morphed either via expression pedal or from the rig footswitch. The morph parameters would be preset and vary from rig to rig whereas something like delay mix would be constant in all rigs.

  • i would find it very useful to use a different ‚morph channel‘ for the remote rigs switches and the morph pedal.
    so i could use a boost with selecting the same rig again on the remote without using the only morph channel for this (which is reserved in my case for the effect parameters)
    hope its clear what i mean :)

  • If you just require five Rigs with always the same delay and only want to change Delay Mix and Gain via two pedals, then:
    a. Set up Delay Mix for Morphing controlled via your Morph Pedal and lock that module including the delay. This way you only set it up once.
    b. Set the Volume Pedal Location to "Input" or "Pre Stock" and lock it there. This then also affects all Rigs.
    Takes a couple of minutes to set it up and easy to remember.


    128 MIDI control changes - or what is left of those - wouldn't be sufficient for all continuous parameters available in Rigs.


    You are referring to the "normal" users and at the same time suggesting a multi-channel Morphing, which is very complex - not only for the developers, but for the users.


    You find a Video Tutorial on our Youtube channel dedicated to "Volume and Boost Pedal", which explains various options including the Wah Pedal Booster.

  • i would find it very useful to use a different ‚morph channel‘ for the remote rigs switches and the morph pedal.
    so i could use a boost with selecting the same rig again on the remote without using the only morph channel for this (which is reserved in my case for the effect parameters)
    hope its clear what i mean :)

    In order to boost your sound you could:
    load another Rig for example dedicated to your lead sound,
    Morph the Mix of a booster or other parameters via Morph pedal or button,
    activate/deactivate booster effects or groups of effects via one of four Effect Buttons or an additional external switch,
    use a Volume Pedal with flexible location in the signal chain AND range including booster function,
    use a Wah Pedal (incl. Wah Pedal Boost).


    Don't forget, that while Morphing could control Delay Mix in one Rig, it could control the Mix of a Booster in another Rig. But again, this is just one possibility.


    If you don't want to change Rigs, and Morphing is occupied by something else, why can't you engage the booster via one of the four Effect Buttons?

  • I am familiar with the concept of locking and have watched all the videos several times as well as regularly reviewing the manual.


    Your Volume and Delay scenario works for that one situation but only that one situation. What about when someone wants to increase the gain and the mids while reducing bass and say increasing the mix level of a phaser while having on the fly control over delay mix at all times? (that's just an example I dreamed up just now not necessarily what I want to do). The point is that you don't need to control every parameter of the Kemper via midi CC so 128 CC# should be plenty. I am only suggestion that the existing midi implementation standards which external foot controllers like RJM already use to control the KPA be added to a pedal type in the Remote. This would leave a single pedal able to be constantly allocated to a single job regardless of the rig being used. In my example I suggested just one delay all night as an extreme example. However, a more common example may be for two or three delays throughout a set which change with rigs but still have the ability to control delay mix in all cases from a fixed CC command.

  • "What about when someone wants to increase the gain and the mids while reducing bass and say increasing the mix level of a phaser while having on the fly control over delay mix at all times? (that's just an example I dreamed up just now not necessarily what I want to do)."


    Do you really need continuous (pedal) control of both dimensions within the same Rig - practically?

  • There are lots of players like myself who like to have one or more parameters constantly available (such as delay mix) while having rig specific control of more specialist parameters.


    At the moment Wah, Volume and Pitch all have their own specialist pedal types along with Morph as a catchall controller. However, I would suggest that Pitch is a far more esoteric effect to have direct access to than something like Delay Mix. What I am suggesting is simply to allow any feature to have this level of control rather than just Wah and Pitch (which I would expect very few people actually use).

  • @Burkhard I have been experimenting with using morph to control the delay mix level for a couple of days now but I still feel the ability to just assign a dedicated midi c.c. to specific functions such as delay mix would be a fantastic addition. The behaviour of Morphing means that whenever you change rig the settings revert to the base sound regardless of where the EXP pedal is. So say I have a delay mix morph range of 0% to 65% but I'm usually somewhere around 30% for a little extra body to the tone. I change rigs but the delay mix defaults back to 0% even though my EXP pedal is sitting somewhere in the middle of its travel. In a situation like this I expect the Delay Mix to continue at the same point I left the EXP pedal.


    At the moment I am sitting in my studio auditioning sounds and have both Delay and Reverb locked. Reverb is pretty low (Hall with time of 3.7 sec and mix of 12.3%) and Delay is linked to morph and the expression pedal with a range of 0% to 64.5%. Every time I change rig using the rig cross buttons the delay resets to 0%.