I Intend to start a study about commercial profiles

Quote from Rod Staples

Thanks Musicmad.

After having done a few tests myself, and realising there's more difference than I though with my different guitars, I'm a bit shocked at how similar your Telecaster and Les Paul is.

I'm not sure what everybody else thinks, I'm kinda thinking your tests prove that it's not different guitars causing the different sounds. I'm going to have to re-evaluate later tonight. My ears are a bit fatigued now.

Of course we always have to make sure that volume differences are eliminated, but I think most of us know that by now.

My tests.

I used the Ruben section from Musicmad's wav file.
Kemper 'BM Sold 99 Cases Dist 2' profile into Focusrite 2i4 into Reaper.

Each comparison is 4 repeats, Ruben Telecaster, my guitar, Ruben's Telecaster again, my guitar again.
Then next comparison etc etc.

Ibanez RG2550Z (basswood body, dimarzio humbuckers).
Charvel Pro Mod San Dimas Style 1
Fender Roadhouse Deluxe Stratocaster
PRS SE Custom 24
Gibson SG Standard

https://drive.google.com/open?…uTGKf3wtbh85AF4yRZ_bEtOkl

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Not really sure what to conclude either. It's a relatively high gain profile so the guitar means less than with a low gain profile.

Your guitars certainly sound different, but to me the perceived sound also relies heavily on the attitude one play with. Maybe that's why my two Rubens examples with Telecaster and LP sounds more alike.

I have bought a lot of commercial profiles...and in 99% of cases (which is valid as I have definitely bought at least 100) have not played an out of the box sound that compared to the demos.

But last week, I sold a strat to a guy that came to my house to try it out first....he sat on the sofa with it unplugged...and he picked so much harder than me...SO MUCH HARDER I was almost scared to plug him in...

I connected him to kemps...and that guitar sounded absolutely majestic.

For a split second, I thought 'how can I sell this'....but realised, I can't make it sound like that, and how much an individual player changes the tone.

Me and him, through that same guitar, with the same strings, same pickup heights, through the same profile, through the same FRFR, with the same pick...absolute night and day difference...and we were both playing little wing type of chordal stuff.

Thankfully, (and especially as he brought his girlfriend with him) my chops absolutely kicked his ass...but his tone...wow. 10x better than mine.

Quote from Rod Staples

Thanks Musicmad.

After having done a few tests myself, and realising there's more difference than I though with my different guitars, I'm a bit shocked at how similar your Telecaster and Les Paul is.

I'm not sure what everybody else thinks, I'm kinda thinking your tests prove that it's not different guitars causing the different sounds. I'm going to have to re-evaluate later tonight. My ears are a bit fatigued now.

Of course we always have to make sure that volume differences are eliminated, but I think most of us know that by now.

My tests.

I used the Ruben section from Musicmad's wav file.
Kemper 'BM Sold 99 Cases Dist 2' profile into Focusrite 2i4 into Reaper.

Each comparison is 4 repeats, Ruben Telecaster, my guitar, Ruben's Telecaster again, my guitar again.
Then next comparison etc etc.

Ibanez RG2550Z (basswood body, dimarzio humbuckers).
Charvel Pro Mod San Dimas Style 1
Fender Roadhouse Deluxe Stratocaster
PRS SE Custom 24
Gibson SG Standard

https://drive.google.com/open?…uTGKf3wtbh85AF4yRZ_bEtOkl

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Wow, all of them sound totally different from Rubens sound. That is more what I mean. The file from musicmad is very to to the recording. I think tomorrow I will bring out a comparison to a M. Britt one.

Sounds good. If possible then use a free one.

Quote from musicmad

Sounds good. If possible then use a free one.

Will check out the kemperpack and compare with Rubens " that rig show" vid from that pack.

Quote from Mattfig

I'm very interested in this thread! It troubles me that Michael is not getting the tones he hears in demos, specifically of my products...I most often use testers to make demos for me.....What do you guys suggest for future demos?

For me, this thread has nothing to do with what profilers are doing, if they say the demo is without post processing then I believe them. It is more about what I have to do as a user to bring my end of it up to the standard of the demo.

Quote from Greg

I have bought a lot of commercial profiles...and in 99% of cases (which is valid as I have definitely bought at least 100) have not played an out of the box sound that compared to the demos.

But last week, I sold a strat to a guy that came to my house to try it out first....he sat on the sofa with it unplugged...and he picked so much harder than me...SO MUCH HARDER I was almost scared to plug him in...

I connected him to kemps...and that guitar sounded absolutely majestic.

For a split second, I thought 'how can I sell this'....but realised, I can't make it sound like that, and how much an individual player changes the tone.

Me and him, through that same guitar, with the same strings, same pickup heights, through the same profile, through the same FRFR, with the same pick...absolute night and day difference...and we were both playing little wing type of chordal stuff.

Thankfully, (and especially as he brought his girlfriend with him) my chops absolutely kicked his ass...but his tone...wow. 10x better than mine.

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Yours is a highly significant test as the only variable is the player.

From your interpretation it seems to me to suggest:-

1. that the player has more impact on the tone produced.
2. that virtuosity in "chops" might sacrifice tone to some degree.
3. or that a constituent of chops needs a high degree of power.

Quote from Rod Staples

Yours is a highly significant test as the only variable is the player.
From your interpretation it seems to me to suggest:-

1. that the player has more impact on the tone produced.
2. that virtuosity in "chops" might sacrifice tone to some degree.
3. or that a constituent of chops needs a high degree of power.

I think there may be some truth to this. Without generalizing too broadly, I think it's safe to say that a louder plucked or strummed note is pretty often considered to have better tone than a softly picked note (up to a point, and depending on context). And this volume can mainly be affected by higher action, picking harder (more effort), and probably string tension deserves a mention. All those things are the enemy of good technique, which for most involves economy of motion/energy, and is greatly assisted by lower action, and often less string tension.

Source: Guy with sub-par chops that really likes his tone.

Technique is a relative term. I think it depends on what styles you want to play. The perfect technique for shredding is not necessarily the perfect technique for blues, is it?

And the set up of the guitar should probably be appropriate for the types of playing you want to do.

If a rig demo is played with the actual rig, recorded with just one guitar, with no overdubs or post production effects added, and you play similarly to the person doing the demo, and are using a similar enough guitar, you should be able to reasonably expect to get a similar sound.

But, since the KPA responds to all of those things like the amp that was profiled, any difference will make the rig sound different. I’m really glad that it does that.

Quote from Locrain

I think there may be some truth to this. Without generalizing too broadly, I think it's safe to say that a louder plucked or strummed note is pretty often considered to have better tone than a softly picked note (up to a point, and depending on context). And this volume can mainly be affected by higher action, picking harder (more effort), and probably string tension deserves a mention. All those things are the enemy of good technique, which for most involves economy of motion/energy, and is greatly assisted by lower action, and often less string tension.

I agree with what you say about louder picked or strummed strings (provided no real fret buzz) giving a richer tone, also new strings where I maybe guilty in using old strings, probably about 200 hours use on each guitar (I'd forgotten this one).

But on action, I have read that Yngwie Malmsteen likes a high action, and he's reported to say that it's because it gives a better tone. To me, his playing sounds as though he's playing with a light touch (maybe I'm mistaking light touch for extreme control), and he uses light strings, he also says he likes the large CBS headstock because they give a better tone.

I always use .009 sets, and pretty low action. It looks like Ruben has a fairly low action as well.

Getting back to Michael Mellner's original point, it will be interesting to hear Eltzejupp's tests to see if he can get a matching sound.

Quote from paults

But, since the KPA responds to all of those things like the amp that was profiled, any difference will make the rig sound different. I’m really glad that it does that.

All fair points, but how different, sometimes it seems too different.

Quote from Rod Staples

All fair points, but how different, sometimes it seems too different.

Sometimes!!

This is exactly the point. Not everytime, sometimes they sound very diffrent. I want to place the request here to the suppliers that they give information about the signalchain ( used soft/ hardware) and the guitar ( type and pu's). That would be great to know.

So here is the next test:

M Britt Kemper free pack

Profile 69 Mars 50 9 3

First you hear Ruben presenting the profile. A clear and open tone with punch. Love it.

Next in a row

-Luke II
-Jem with evolution pu
-Jem with paf pu
-Strat american standard
-Gibson Les Paul
-EVH Wolfgang

Crazy eh?! None reach this sound. It's like a woolplate over my monitors.

A second try, same profile

First is Rubens sound

Next is the luke I tweaked to clear it up. No change in gain but I hear a lot of more gain than in Rubens sound, or am I wrong? This is more an Eddie van Halen sound
Next is, I reduced the gain, I changed the cab!!! to a 1960AV and I setted an eq. It's like night and day. Cool sound imho, but not the same as Rubens sound. But this sounds find a way in my galery
At last again the sound sound right out of the box when I load the profile from rig manager. Woolplate again.

This shows exactly what I mean. Load the original Profile and give me the sound from the vid. MAybe someone with e Telecaster chime in and do a short recording. But please, right out of the box with no processing.

I too was very excited/impressed by that video (that got as many people asking where he got his kemper stand from as the tones!)....and when I downloaded them...they also sounded nothing like the video. Played with the following guitars into a CLR.

Suhr Classic with SSV/ ML singles

Suhr Modern with SSH+

PRS CU22 stock pickups

PRS CU22 with Lollar Imperials

Standard USA Strat with Fat 50's

All sounded very poor in comparison to the video - which sounded brilliant!

There is something I am missing! Which may well be a tele - but I have the same issue with nearly all videos/sound examples - and then what they sound like through my rig - dull, lifeless and definitely a 'wooly blanket' experience.

Tweaking clarity and definition and pick definition, EQing etc does make a difference and can open them up as we all know - as does post processing obviously.

But nearly all the videos claim that will hear a sound VERY close to what you're hearing on the video and it just isn't the case. I've often wondered when there are huge threads about 'AMAZING AMAZING PROFILE FROM.....' and then I buy it, and it is rubbish...thinking what are 'they' doing...that I have missed!!

Greg

@Greg just a thought which crossed my mind. It may be nothing but thought I ask anyway.

When you listen to the demos, what do listen on? Computer Pseakers, Cheap Headphones, Good Quality Headphones, Studio Monitors, FRFR guitar speakers (CLR) or something else?

When you play back the profiles yourself what do you listen on? The same system or something different?

If different have you tried listening on the same system to remove as many variables as possible?

This may not be the cause of the big differences but it is a possibility so thought I should at least ask.

Thank you for asking, we're only going to get the tones we want through investigation and sharing knowledge!

I am lucky enough to have Adam S3A monitors as my primary, Adam A77X as my seconds and a grot-box aura tone as a third - in a room I know really well.

Of course, when I am watching videos of cats playing the piano or on this forum finding out about new profiles and things, I am in my living room listening on my laptop - but if something excites me - I listen on my proper monitors before making a purchase decision.

What are your experiences with commercial profiles translating to your rig?? I am being super careful not to list any that have disappointed me.

But I can say, the only one I have been happy with (still with some tweaking of course) - and actually use in my live/recording rig is the VH4 from Sinmix.

Cheers,
Greg

Quote from Eltzejupp

A second try, same profile

First is Rubens sound

Next is the luke I tweaked to clear it up. No change in gain but I hear a lot of more gain than in Rubens sound, or am I wrong? This is more an Eddie van Halen sound
Next is, I reduced the gain, I changed the cab!!! to a 1960AV and I setted an eq. It's like night and day. Cool sound imho, but not the same as Rubens sound. But this sounds find a way in my galery
At last again the sound sound right out of the box when I load the profile from rig manager. Woolplate again.

This shows exactly what I mean. Load the original Profile and give me the sound from the vid. MAybe someone with e Telecaster chime in and do a short recording. But please, right out of the box with no processing.

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This Ruben guy records all the Kemper profiles via monitors, I think!? So what you hear in the video is captured from a mic in the room - it is the sound of the specific studio monitors in that specific room and coloured by a mic! You can not compare this to the signal recorded to a DAW. Please correct me if I am wrong guys!

EDIT: In the video is a short part, where a mic signal was mixed in by mistake.

@Greg FFS!!!! That is some awesome playback rigs. I bet even cats playingpiano sound amay - zinggg on those

I only have little A7x to listen on but I struggle by manfully

I was really wondering whether hearing the demos of good quality speakers but then playing back through an FRFR wedge might be a contributing factor but I assume you use the Adam’s for comparison so the playback variable should be totally eliminated.

My experience is limited as I generally don’t listen to many of the demos. When I have compared say something like Tone Junkie profiles to their videos I often find they sound very different when I use them. However, I know than I come from the Stevie Ray Vaughan school of subtlety when it comes to picking technique Whereas those guys can be pretty subtle. Also I think that a lot of the time lower to mid gain profiles sound best with the guitar volume rolled back a little. I think the Tone Junkie demos probably use the guitar’s volume quite a bit whereas I suspect many users Treat the volume like an on/off switch. In my opinion riding the volume alone can make a massive difference to the sond of a profile (just like a real amp). It would be interesting to hear from profiler sellers whether they typically demo woth guitar volume and tone flat out or tweak these to suit the profile.

Quote from Ibot39

This Ruben guy records all the Kemper profiles via monitors, I think!? So what you hear in the video is captured from a mic in the room - it is the sound of the specific studio monitors in that specific room and coloured by a mic! You can not compare this to the signal recorded to a DAW. Please correct me if I am wrong guys!

Are you sure about that? I have always assumed he only captured the speach in the rom and sent the guitar direct to DAW from the main outs.

Quote from Ibot39

This Ruben guy records all the Kemper profiles via monitors, I think!? So what you hear in the video is captured from a mic in the room - it is the sound of the specific studio monitors in that specific room and coloured by a mic! You can not compare this to the signal recorded to a DAW. Please correct me if I am wrong guys!

What? Miced monitors?

You're kidding. Who will mic a monitor? His voice is recorded via a mic in the room but not the guitar sound.
That would be unprofessional. Why do think of this? I think nobody will have the idea to something like that when he recorded something with the kpa.