I Intend to start a study about commercial profiles

Quote from skoczy

Hi Frank, your LukeII sample compared to this original Ruben's one sounds like garbage why is that?

Please stop this nonsense. Franks recording of Ruben doesn't sound right due to some technical error. The comparison is invalid.

Quote from musicmad

Please stop this nonsense. Franks recording of Ruben doesn't sound right due to some technical error. The comparison is invalid.

Take it easy. I just commented, what I heard. No harm intended.

Quote from Eltzejupp

That is my big question. I dont know. It's not onky the luke. Nearly all of the gainy profiles from this pack dudnt sound like the vid and I tried it with many guitars. But I am really happy to have many pacjs which sound like heaven, so I dont care any longer about that.

anyway, it's quite weird and it would be good to know the reason - many people would benefit from that

Quote from skoczy

Take it easy. I just commented, what I heard. No harm intended.

I will :). We spend some time getting into details in this thread. I'm gonna send Frank the "correct" file so we can stay on track.

Quote from skoczy

anyway, it's quite weird and it would be good to know the reason - many people would benefit from that

Indeed. What we have discovered so far (feel free to read back) is that if you play with the same attitude with a Tele you get a highly comparable sound to the original.

Quote from skoczy

you can hear guitar strings in his recordings - it must be captured with mic

I'm pretty sure it's recorded from the main outs and Ruben actually appologises in one of the comments that they didn't dip the vocal mic enough at places so you can still hear string noise over the top.

Quote from Wheresthedug

I'm pretty sure it's recorded from the main outs and Ruben actually appologises in one of the comments that they didn't dip the vocal mic enough at places so you can still hear string noise over the top.

This

Quote from musicmad

Here it is. Same Michael Britt 9 - 3 profile:

https://drive.google.com/file/…1Aoxdp67/view?usp=sharing

Ruben, me, Ruben, me

Again: No effects locked in Kemper, opened the profile directly from RM, recorded into Apollo Twin analog ins, no effects in Cubase (insert or master).

Same conclusion as the last one for me: Obviously same profile but my 59' Tele sounds a bit different - not woolly at all though. I do prefer old strings - so that is part of it.

Conclusion #2: Frank this is a good a reason as ever to add a T-Style to your arsenal. You obviously dig the sound!

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Just reposting for late-comers. Despite various mistakes on the video you can get the same type of sound, if you mimic the attitude and the guitar.

Quote from musicmad

Just reposting for late-comers. Despite various mistakes on the video you can get the same type of sound, if you mimic the attitude and the guitar.

I give up.

Here I tried again

First is Ruben with the /13 amp, than me , only volume knob is used. I think that's near, but than the 69 marshall. No way without tweaking to casme near. When I load the pure untweaked profile it sounds like this woolplate thing. After tweaking the eq I got the recorded sound.

So record is: Ruben, me, Ruben, me

I'm on my phone but this sounded pretty good. Was this the eq'ed version at the end?

Quote from musicmad

I'm on my phone but this sounded pretty good. Was this the eq'ed version at the end?

yes, but you won't see what I have done to get it. The /13 sound is ok out of the box and near to the vid or better the character is reached. But the gainy ones are a pain. Tweaked to the bone.

Quote from Eltzejupp

I give up.

Here I tried again

First is Ruben with the /13 amp, than me , only volume knob is used. I think that's near, but than the 69 marshall. No way without tweaking to casme near. When I load the pure untweaked profile it sounds like this woolplate thing. After tweaking the eq I got the recorded sound.

So record is: Ruben, me, Ruben, me

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Listening with nearfields sounds to me that there is the same issue still i.e. your clip from Ruben /13 part is again different from the original audio in the video. Yours have this boosted highs/scooped mids thing going on whereas the original has meaty mids. It is easier to hear the more overdrive there are probably due to added harmonics that accentuate it..

Personally my whole thing with profiling is to get the authentic, mic'd sound of the amp, cab as if I were about to record it for a record. I generally record all gtr's dry for myself so I like a clean,high quality signal chain.

When I've done my profiles and edited all the meta data, I plug my kemper into my surface 2 with a steinberg UR22 and a pair of phones and go through 5 or 6 different profiles recording with a a few different guitars. I use the FX on the kemper. Some of my demos are a bit rough and ready as I literally just record a direct noodle with the sound, but I feel the rawness gives you a 100% reliable impression of what you'll get. It's also the reason I don't High pass filter my profiles. In a live/studio situation I would generally take out the bottom end on a guitar depending on musical context, however I believe yo should get the whole picture to start with and then edit to taste, you can't put back what's not there in the first place.

My latest profiles, the running on empty set, I had a tape sim and some SSL compression on the master bus as I recorded the demo's on my studio, I didn't feel this changed the end result as it's subtle.

I'll also add I have a set of $10,000 monitors in a treated room so what I hear back is reliable too. I spend a lot of my life mixing records so I have to have a reliable monitoring source, this helps a lot with the profiling process too as I know that when I finish a profile it sounds exactly as it should.

that's my 2 cents as they say

Marcus

Thanks Marcus.

I tried a little test of the 59 Marshall profile in Ruben's video last night and found that the results straight out the box were VERY VERY close to the original. They were slightly different but probably no more different than you would expect from a different player using a different guitar.

However, another thought hit me this morning. I haven't had a chance to test it yet but maybe as a commercial profiler making demos you could comment on it. The videos of demos on YouTube tend be of a similar loudness to other YouTube videos. This suggests to me that the audio is quite heavily compressed/limited in the video editing/mastering/uploading stage. Most people probably don't think of that as "post production" in respect of their demos but it clearly has an impact on the overall perception to the end user. In your opinion, could this be part of the issue that some people are hearing (particularly if there are delay and reverb effects which would appear louder than normal due to the compression).

It's just a thought and I might be miles off but thought I would throw it out there.

The only accurate method is using a DI recording and reamping it as it eliminates all the variables like different guitars, pickups, picks, playing technique, age and gauge of strings etc.

Quote from hjscheffler

The only accurate method is using a DI recording and reamping it as it eliminates all the variables like different guitars, pickups, picks, playing technique, age and gauge of strings etc.

I asked to do this and no one responded

Quote from norburybrook

My latest profiles, the running on empty set, I had a tape sim and some SSL compression on the master bus as I recorded the demo's on my studio, I didn't feel this changed the end result as it's subtle.

Tape sim and SSL compression?

Not fair, IMHO. IM very-humble O, vendors shouldn't sprinkle any fairy dust on example tracks... unless they fully disclose what they've done. It's just not an even playing field otherwise, and it leaves customers guessing what the Hell is going on, hence the main thrust of this thread so far.

Quote from Wheresthedug

Thanks Marcus.

I tried a little test of the 59 Marshall profile in Ruben's video last night and found that the results straight out the box were VERY VERY close to the original. They were slightly different but probably no more different than you would expect from a different player using a different guitar.

However, another thought hit me this morning. I haven't had a chance to test it yet but maybe as a commercial profiler making demos you could comment on it. The videos of demos on YouTube tend be of a similar loudness to other YouTube videos. This suggests to me that the audio is quite heavily compressed/limited in the video editing/mastering/uploading stage. Most people probably don't think of that as "post production" in respect of their demos but it clearly has an impact on the overall perception to the end user. In your opinion, could this be part of the issue that some people are hearing (particularly if there are delay and reverb effects which would appear louder than normal due to the compression).

It's just a thought and I might be miles off but thought I would throw it out there.

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Absolutely, that's why I upload full 24 bit wav's to either my web site directly or soundcloud. @Monkeyman I hear what you're saying and trust me if I thought I was deliberately 'enhancing' the sound to mask bad profiling I'd be with you 100%. I would categorically state that if I removed the slight master bus compression and tape sim, no one would be able to tell the difference it's that subtle.

I'm being fully open about my particular process here as I've nothing to hide and stand by my profiles.

I will perhaps in future then go back to a direct straight out into my surface if people feel that using good recording studio/tape is enhancing the sound.

I'll add that the two Dumble amps in my profile sets are so dynamic that it would be more or less impossible to recreate what I played sound wise as they respond to your touch so dynamically, even with the same guitar. throw in a different player and a different guitar you'll be adding another set of variables. .The thing is though that's exactly how it would be with the real amps, which is why dumble would only sell amps to certain players, and some players don't get on with dumble amps, they're incredibly unforgiving

The good thing is though I've had people buy these profiles and tell me it's the closest they've come to playing the real thing, these are people who have owned/played the real thing in the past and know how they're supposed to sound/feel/repond

Marcus

I have questions for all of you who can’t get the same sound as the you hear in the demo (assuming the demo Is a single guitar, not double tracked, and not a full mix):

Are you playing a similar kind of guitar?

Have you tried playing the exact same chords/riffs with the same physical approach?

If you are getting too much gain with a similar guitar, have you tried turning the guitar volume down?