I Intend to start a study about commercial profiles

  • I am by no means a purist - so really don't mind what profilers have done to their profiles - as long as my guitar rings like a bell and/or rips faces off!

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

  • Ok, again my bad. I have a busy life juggling everything so it's no surprise things like this get missed.


    I can see where it's come from I suppose but in reality it will mean less communication from the people who are trying to push forward the quality of profiling.


    I thought this was an interesting subject hence my comments and involvement, I thought the OP wanted input from the people who actually can give 'horses mouth' information.



    another lesson leaned. :D



    M

  • No, you cannot participate in any thread in the discussion subforum, let alone create one.


    Remember - there are two subforums in the commercial section.

    You're right, but where is the value of the segregation. I just don't understand the conflict. It's not even an issue for Kemper, they benefit from profilers posting, and vice versa. Maybe i am missing something. But this is a strange rule.


    No spamming? Sure, but that's an issue forums deal with in many ways less draconian than this. I think it lessens the value of the community to not be able to have the input of Matt, Tim, Ian, and so many others, on an issue like this.

    Yeah Greg, but the thrust of this thread so far has been about whether or not you get what you think you're paying for.

    Some would argue it is the only actual topic. :D

    Disclaimer: When I post demo clips for profiles, there will be some minimal post-processing, unless stated otherwise. I normally double-track hard L/R, and add to the main buss a small amount of EQ and a limiter/comp set pretty light as well. Sometimes I get test profiles in advance of release, though 90% of my clips will be from packs I have purchased.

  • absolutely and the ONLY people who can really give you that info are the commercial profilers themselves :D but they can't :D


    M

    Well..and those who do demos for them. :D

    Disclaimer: When I post demo clips for profiles, there will be some minimal post-processing, unless stated otherwise. I normally double-track hard L/R, and add to the main buss a small amount of EQ and a limiter/comp set pretty light as well. Sometimes I get test profiles in advance of release, though 90% of my clips will be from packs I have purchased.

    Edited once, last by Locrain ().

  • I was just wondering if when some people think 'this pack doesn't sound like the demo?' Are they understandably misunderstanding what they 'should' be hearing as they haven't much experience in recording in a traditional studio?


    It's particularly important with these BIG profile packs...that contain 400 profiles of a single amp.


    If you load a profile that says something like 'MD421 - off axis - 1.5" from cap'...are guitarist that are less experienced in recording real amps expecting this one profile to sound full, polished and finished...as they maybe don't understand that profile is meant to be blended with something else?


    Especially as the demo songs of vendors rarely have a single solo'd guitar with which to form an opinion and the track will be built up of multiple profiles or blends of a 57/421...or a 57/121...or 414/67 etc etc


    Just a thought!

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

  • Id like to try to shorten it up again here. Topic was that there are profile presentations out there and customers can’t reach the presented sound because it sounds very different when using the presented profile. That’s all. No discussion about profiling itself or used equipment when profiling. Just a comparison of presented and reached sound.

  • Id like to try to shorten it up again here. Topic was that there are profile presentations out there and customers can’t reach the presented sound because it sounds very different when using the presented profile. That’s all. No discussion about profiling itself or used equipment when profiling. Just a comparison of presented and reached sound.


    Fair question, Greg.


    Many (most) of the YouTube demos I see have the particular Rigs and often their specifics named in layover text as and when the Rig/s being used change/s.

    Precisely. We are not talking about not being able to find the one good profile out of 300 in the pack, I have never seen an advertisement for a profile/pack that did not include specifics on the profile used.


    Valid consideration...but well outside the scope of the thread.

    Disclaimer: When I post demo clips for profiles, there will be some minimal post-processing, unless stated otherwise. I normally double-track hard L/R, and add to the main buss a small amount of EQ and a limiter/comp set pretty light as well. Sometimes I get test profiles in advance of release, though 90% of my clips will be from packs I have purchased.

  • Id like to try to shorten it up again here. Topic was that there are profile presentations out there and customers can’t reach the presented sound because it sounds very different when using the presented profile. That’s all. No discussion about profiling itself or used equipment when profiling. Just a comparison of presented and reached sound.

    I usually don't "use"and record only a single profile. In a demo I also want to hear what is possible with the pack! How does it sound double tracked and how in mix. Even the poorest hobby musician uses hi / lo pass and some plugins. Superb profiles can sound like shit when demoed alone, out of context (genre the maker had in mind for example) and totally unprocessed. Best would be: Isolated guitar tracks without processing + double tracked + in a mix + 1-2 sample rigs to try out.

  • I gave this profile a go and I have also listened to Ruben's video and these are my observations.

    The sound on the video seems to be embellished with a room mic picking up Ruben's string hits in the room. Listen to the video with headphones. You can hear it. If you take this sound of the mic in the room out of the equation, the profile straight from the pack is, in my humble opinion, is identical. I played it with a ES335 with the Classic 59 pickup in the bridge and it was damn close but for it sounding a little less abrasive considering it's a semi-acoustic and not a Tele and I'm not Ruben. His playing style is also a major factor too. He's attacking that guitar with gusto.

  • I agree that the mic in the room (which Ruben acknowledged was a mistake) clouds the perception a little. However, it is still clear that the profile itself is very close to what users achieve themselves.


    Here is my quick comparison. Ruben's clip downloaded into Logic. My playing a PRS 513 Mahogany Body, Maple Top and solid Rosewood neck on Bridge Single Coil mode (so not that similar to Ruben's Tele ;)) . I play pretty hard but probably not as hard as Ruben.


    Yep they sound a little different but close enough to feel like its the same profile. I hven't tweaked Clean Sense or Distortion Sense so the gain level could probably be brought closer to the original with very little work.


    https://soundcloud.com/alan-dick/ruben-69-mars/s-Z5oXq

  • I have been thinking about the earlier suggestion of uploading a DI signal for multiple users to reamp through their own KPA and compare results. While it's a good experiment it still doesn't address the real issue of this thread which is - do commercial profile demos sound the same as the profiles they are selling. There is one obvious way to test this but under current forum rules it would need to be done in the specific Commercial Profile section.


    Let's say a profile seller like lonestargtr or Jonathanrsullivan of Tone Junkie were to upload the DI tracks for one of their demo video's or soundcloud demos (if they don't have the DI tracks then perhaps they could make one for the next pack) and provide a free download of that specific profile. Everyone could test the profile via reamping and answer once and for all whether a profile demo sounds exactly like the profile being sold and therefore, the differences must be in the actual guitar, playing style etc.


    This method isn't a way of saying whether a profile is good/bad/indifferent merely whether the demo is a realistic representation of the actual product. My bet is they will mostly be pretty damn close.


    Goldlionaudio already offered to participate in the original experiment and norburybrook has also been very open in contributing to this thread so mayby you guys would be up for it in the commercial section of the forum?

  • Dunno - I buy from the people I trust. And that's pretty much all of them (if not all). This seems a bit overkill to me. At least I would like to see one single example in this thread where there could be any doubt. And that is yet to be seen. My take from this thread is that buying a good profile will not make you sound good on it's own. I think we could all benefit from acknowledging that.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • Dunno - I buy from the people I trust. And that's pretty much all of them (if not all). This seems a bit overkill to me. At least I would like to see one single example in this thread where there could be any doubt. And that is yet to be seen. My take from this thread is that buying a good profile will not make you sound good on it's own. I think we could all benefit from acknowledging that.

    I would say that’s a pretty sensible stance to take on most things. :thumbup:


    My overkill suggestion is just that - overkill. Mainly because I also believe that most demos I have seen are pretty close to the results I would get with the same guitar and playing style. Therefore, reamping a DI signal between ourselves wouldn’t really prove anything. The only way to prove to put an end to this once and for all would be to compare the actual demo DI with the same DI reamped by the end user. However, I suspect the outcome will be disappointing to many as I would bet the purchased profile will sound exactly like the demo.

  • I would say that’s a pretty sensible stance to take on most things. :thumbup:


    My overkill suggestion is just that - overkill. Mainly because I also believe that most demos I have seen are pretty close to the results I would get with the same guitar and playing style. Therefore, reamping a DI signal between ourselves wouldn’t really prove anything. The only way to prove to put an end to this once and for all would be to compare the actual demo DI with the same DI reamped by the end user. However, I suspect the outcome will be disappointing to many as I would bet the purchased profile will sound exactly like the demo.

    it comes down to what one is trying to prove. If the OP does not trust the seller only a DI of the original demo track would help. If the claim is that a profile sounds different on any PROFILER regardless if all of the global settings are exactly the same on each unit this will easily be debunked by reamping the same DI using the same profile on several PROFILERs. The outcome is already clear-since the PROFILER is a digital device the results will all be identical.