UA Apollo Twin vs. Apollo 8 Interface w/ KPA

I have the twin and absolutely love it. Recording through either analog or spdif sounds great (with a slight preference for analog ins on crunch sounds). You need an optical to coax spdif converter - not an ADAT. I'm using this one (https://www.avxperten.dk/coaxi…99oTjWoiLdr0aAgHqEALw_wcB) but I think any will do as long as you remember to set the Kemper to clock master (otherwise you'll have clicks). Just remember to switch back when you disconnect or you'll have no sound.

I haven't tried re-amping just yet, but if you record the DI signal over spdif along with processed over analog I would assume it would be no issue.

Welcome to the forum!

Quote from Eyetri2015

I guess the biggest question is, would I be ok with not having the option of reamping digitally (absence of spdif OUT) on the Apollo Twin?

Absolutely, many feel Analog is better anyways. However, I use my Apollo 8 via SPIDF and love it!

Quote from Eyetri2015

(does reamping just mean "hey I liked the way I played that riff in my DAW, but I want a different tone and prefer to NOT replay the same riff so I'll just swap out this tone for that tone?")

Yessir!

Quote from Eyetri2015

I will NOT be able to reamp with spdif.

You can.

Quote from Eyetri2015

Is there any "compromise" in functionality/sound quality when recording digitally through an optical converter like this?

No. Many use it this way and their tracks sound great!

Quote from Eyetri2015

Option 2: Apollo 8. A bit overkill for what I'm intending to do, but it does include coaxial spdif IN/OUT, therefore I could reamp digitally if so desired in the future, plus I would not need to acquire an S/PDIF to ADAT-converter like I would with the Twin.

Depends on if you'll "use" the extra ins/outs and whether or not that justifies the added cash-ola!

As an aside, you'll want to invest in a Satellite (or 2 ) for the extra DSP - if you intend on using their plugins. Some can be quite "taxing" on your system. Welcome to the Forum, btw!

The Twin is extremely limited. Let's use a Twin Quad MK II ($1299) and Apollo 8 Quad ($1999 with a free Quad satellite) for comparison.

• There is a maximum of 10 inputs (2 analog + 8 via ADAT expansion) and four analog outputs.
• If you get a S/PDIF to ADAT adapter, you can connect the Kemper to the Twin digitally, but now you are down to four inputs and you've used two of them.
• Even with a Twin MK II Quad, without adding ADAT expansion you can only use two of the DSP chips for tracking. OK. Say you added an ADAT expander with equivalent audio quality as the UA hardware to use those chips. A MOTU 828ES would do the trick, now you'd be at $2298 total cost.
• The Twin has only one Hi Z input, and when you use it, it takes away one of the Mic preamps.
• A Twin Quad + a Quad satellite is $1998. That is a dollar less than an Apollo 8 with a free Quad satellite.

Compare that with an Apollo 8 Quad.

• 2 Hi Z Unison inputs.
• 4 Unison mic preamps
• 4 line inputs
• 8 analog outputs
• stereo monitor outs
• 2 headphone outs
• 4 cue buses (2 on the Twin)
• S/PDIF stereo in/out
• 8 ADAT in/out for expansion

Let's look at the real world, and how you'd use either interface with a Kemper. Say you have a session with two guitars and two vocalists. There is no way to cover them without a Twin with ADAT expansion. Even with ADAT expansion, a Twin can't have both guitars using a Unison amp sim.

An Apollo 8 can have two Unison amp sims for the two guitars, two vocalists with Unison channel strips, and it can connect to the Kemper digitally. All at the same time. Apollo 8 also does easy re-amping in the digital domain. I do it all the time with my Kemper. Before the Kemper allowed for sample rates over 44.1 kHz, I used to have to re-amp in the analog domain. In my experience, digital re-amping is cleaner.

A quick note about UA satellites. The UA Console application does not recognize them. So their DSP cannot be used with Unison technology. And they are limited to Live Track Mode (LTM) use during tracking. Satellites are mainly useful for adding available DSP to cover plugins loaded into your DAW's slots. LTM does lower round trip latency, but it is not as fast as the near zero latency you achieve when using an Apollo.

Furthermore, a satellite cannot relieve DSP load requirements for an Apollo or Twin during tracking.

Only the Universal Audio interfaces support Unison plugins and near zero latency. To use either of these features, UA plugins must be loaded into the Console application.

Very-informative, scratch.

Welcome to the forum, Kevin.

Just so you're aware at AES UAD came out with the Apollo X series. The x6 may be what you're after. Primarily these have more SHARC processors for UAD plugins which may or may not be your thing but also they have better conversion than the older series. I have an x8 and feel it's fixed many of the issues I had with the SIlverface on the DA side. The AD is also very clean now should you wish to additionally record some mic's along with the SPDIF input.

One very good point about UAD is that the SPDIF can be a different rate to the interface's internal clock rate which means your projects are not tied to the Kemper's own internal rate for most things.

Quote from scratch17

A quick note about UA satellites. The UA Console application does not recognize them. So their DSP cannot be used with Unison technology.

Yeah, kinda sucks in that regard. Keeps latency low tho'!

Quote from scratch17

The Twin is extremely limited. Let's use a Twin Quad MK II ($1299) and Apollo 8 Quad ($1999 with a free Quad satellite) for comparison.

• There is a maximum of 10 inputs (2 analog + 8 via ADAT expansion) and four analog outputs.
• If you get a S/PDIF to ADAT adapter, you can connect the Kemper to the Twin digitally, but now you are down to four inputs and you've used two of them.
• Even with a Twin MK II Quad, without adding ADAT expansion you can only use two of the DSP chips for tracking. OK. Say you added an ADAT expander with equivalent audio quality as the UA hardware to use those chips. A MOTU 828ES would do the trick, now you'd be at $2298 total cost.
• The Twin has only one Hi Z input, and when you use it, it takes away one of the Mic preamps.
• A Twin Quad + a Quad satellite is $1998. That is a dollar less than an Apollo 8 with a free Quad satellite.

Compare that with an Apollo 8 Quad.

• 2 Hi Z Unison inputs.
• 4 Unison mic preamps
• 4 line inputs
• 8 analog outputs
• stereo monitor outs
• 2 headphone outs
• 4 cue buses (2 on the Twin)
• S/PDIF stereo in/out
• 8 ADAT in/out for expansion

Let's look at the real world, and how you'd use either interface with a Kemper. Say you have a session with two guitars and two vocalists. There is no way to cover them without a Twin with ADAT expansion. Even with ADAT expansion, a Twin can't have both guitars using a Unison amp sim.

An Apollo 8 can have two Unison amp sims for the two guitars, two vocalists with Unison channel strips, and it can connect to the Kemper digitally. All at the same time. Apollo 8 also does easy re-amping in the digital domain. I do it all the time with my Kemper. Before the Kemper allowed for sample rates over 44.1 kHz, I used to have to re-amp in the analog domain. In my experience, digital re-amping is cleaner.

Good read. You can connect the Kemper to spdif directly (not adat) with a rca/optical konverter though.

Quote

You can connect the Kemper to spdif directly (not adat) with rca/optical konverter though.

True. But the Twin will lose its expansion. So now you have a maximum of two inputs. As I said above, that is very limited input solution.

Quote from scratch17

True. But the Twin will lose its expansion. So now you have a maximum of two inputs. As I said above, that is very limited input solution.

Sure. If you use an input, then that input is used. But that might be just the ticket for that user.

Hello everybody,

as I am currently awaiting the delivery of my Apollo X8 (upgrade from Focusrite 18i8 2nd), I start scratching my head what the best way is to connect it to the Kemper to maximize the efficiency of the workflow and the Audio quality.

I will want to use the Kemper for recording and reamping as opposed to using the UA (that don't interest me) or other digital amps. I still feel that the Kemper has an edge here and it feels a lot more like playing my actual amps (that I have nicely profiled and I know that the Kemper takes my pedals well) .

So, I guess:

- Direct Out (Kemper) -> Line Level Input (Apollo) (say number 5) setting the Kemper to "Git studio", correct? (for the DI signal)

- Line Level out (Apollo) (say no 5) -> Return 1 setting it to "Return Input Reamp" (no Reamp box needed), correct?

Do I have to disconnect this input during the original (not reamped) recording or is it enough to silence that channel in Console?

- Main outs (Kemper) -> Line Level inputs (Say, 6,7) on the Apollo, correct? (for the stereo amp signal)

That would leave all four mic preamps free for vocals, acoustic guitars etc or the two High Z for guitar when I don't use the Kemper. Does that make sense? Do I need to pay attention to any "Unison" goodness or am I missing out on some opportunities? Would it be preferable to stay digital and route everything via SP/DIF (I have zero experience using that).

Then I have to figure out how to set levels correctly and make Console and Logic talk to each other so that all signals flow the way they should, but I am confident that I can figure this out.

Sorry, for the newbie questions but I figure that this stuff quickly gets somewhat complex and it is easy to go astray. This potential workflow has renewed my excitement for the Kemper. It should be possible to monitor and record basically latency free this way since neither the Apollo cores nor the computer DAW have much to do, right?

Happy 2021 everybody!

Definitely use spdif for reamping as the 8X supports that. It's not hard

(Deleted duplicate post)

Quote from musicmad

Definitely use spdif for reamping as the 8X supports that. It's not hard

thank you very much! Could I pick your brain for a second and ask what cables and adapters I need to buy to make it work? I would appreciate it!

You should not need adaptors for Kemper and the Apollo x8 since they are both using coaxial spdif. So two coaxial spdif cables should be enough.

Quote from musicmad

You should not need adaptors for Kemper and the Apollo x8 since they are both using coaxial spdif. So two coaxial spdif cables should be enough.

great - got it and ordered the cables. Everything should be ready to go by Thursday. Many thanks for your help!

I wanted to come back to this. I received the Apollo yesterday and started dabbling around with it.

This is the way I have set it up presently:

- guitar into Kemper

- Kemper S/PDIF out to Apollo and pickup signal in Logic (works)

- Kemper direct out (set to GIT Studio) into Apollo line input 8 (works)

- Apollo S/PDIF out to Kemper. Set Kemper to S/PDIF revamp input upon playing back the direct signal. (Works)

(- Optional: Apollo Line Out 8 to Palmer Dacapo ReAmp box in case I want to ReAmp with a real amp (Works))

It took a while to identify all the correct ports in Logic, but now it works but I am wondering whether what I am doing is the best way?

- On the Kemper there is no Control over the hotness of the signal going with GIT Studio to Direct Out and in the Apollo does not let me adjust input level on input 8.

- In Logic, I see a rather weak direct signal (say -24 dB peak or so when strumming reasonably hard). I guess, I would be happier seeing a signal like -12 dB or so.

- upon playing the DI track back for reamping, I do get consistent levels in the Reamp channel compared to the original recording when I use the same profile.

- The S/PDIF signal is nice and strong.

I am wondering whether it is not suboptimal to record with such weak signals or whether this is not introducing S/N issues?

Would it be better to run the direct signal from the Kemper into one of the Unison channels together with one of the praised UA preamp plugins (which one would be best?)? Just checking whether I am underusing the Apollo superpowers.