Any advantage to using two FRFR speakers?

  • Stereo in a live band is a big commitment and dependent on the sound engineer.


    When I used to run stereo, it just disappeared when the band struck up, so to maximise the benefit you have to have your band sound nailed.


    I personally think there is little point running stereo stage monitors and not running stereo out front..


    I also think the main value is when using stereo effects. I don't use many effects as so its overkill for me. I prefer the simplicity of mono.

  • I see a lot of people saying running stereo isn’t advised because it makes the job harder or requires more work on the part of the sound engineer. What am I missing here?


    We run stereo at every gig in both of my bands. We run a full PA with a digital board. It’s just one extra XLR cable and then panning one channel to the left and one to the right. What is so complicated about that? If people are dealing with sound engineers who complain about having to run ONE extra cable and, God forbid, have to touch the pan knobs on two channels, I’d suggest finding new engineers (if possible). Remember, ultimately, their job is to make the BAND sound good. Not to just do whatever is easiest for them.

  • I see a lot of people saying running stereo isn’t advised because it makes the job harder or requires more work on the part of the sound engineer. What am I missing here?

    The IEM are insulated from outside and the sound you and the crowd get is already stereo.

  • The IEM are insulated from outside and the sound you and the crowd get is already stereo.

    I understand that. I love playing in stereo. But I don't see how running in stereo becomes a difficult task for someone who is running sound out front. It can be done as simply as cloning the EQ for 2 channels, and just panning one hard left and the other hard right.

  • I don't see how running in stereo becomes a difficult task for someone who is running sound out front. It can be done as simply as cloning the EQ for 2 channels, and just panning one hard left and the other hard right.

    The Kemper is going stereo to FOH already. If you and the band use IEM, additional FRFR monitoring on stage is almost pointless in mono, let alone in stereo. You want two channels in the IEM mixer? People in the band will have to adjust your left AND your right in their IEM mix? Not sure I understand.

  • Some will say that depending on how the speakers are set up in the venue, not everyone will hear the effects the way they are intended for stereo. And that's true to an extent. However, the average listener is not going to notice those minor details, but the people that DO notice the stereo effects will get a much better experience. Plus, the way we have our stage mix set up, is that we have a mono-mix right in the middle of the stage next to the drummer so that the main left and right PA speakers are run in full stereo, and then that middle mix is in mono. So anyone standing right in the middle of the stage will hear a mono mix and not know the difference anyway.



    Surely that is actually the opposite of the problem with a stereo mix. The people in the middle are the only ones getting a stereo mix as intended so adding a mono mix negates much of the benefit for them. On the other hand the further to each side you move the more of the mix you lose so the more beneficial a mono mix would be. I’ve experienced this many times when watching bands from a position at one side of the stage. In some cases the guitar completely disappears if you are on the wrong side of the stage.

    I see a lot of people saying running stereo isn’t advised because it makes the job harder or requires more work on the part of the sound engineer. What am I missing here?


    We run stereo at every gig in both of my bands. We run a full PA with a digital board. It’s just one extra XLR cable and then panning one channel to the left and one to the right. What is so complicated about that? If people are dealing with sound engineers who complain about having to run ONE extra cable and, God forbid, have to touch the pan knobs on two channels, I’d suggest finding new engineers (if possible). Remember, ultimately, their job is to make the BAND sound good. Not to just do whatever is easiest for them.

    I agree that the sound engineer’s job is to make the BAND sound good. I don’t think the complaint is about needto run one extra cable or mix an extra channel. It’s really about the space the guitar takes up in the mix and how stereo FX translate to the overall band sound. Panning guitar hard left and hard right is unlikely to provide the best band mix in many situations. A 3 or 4 piece would probably get a bigger more lush sound but bigger bands with a more complex mix can become indistinct. I played in a 10 piece band for 25 years. A stereo guitar sound is the last thing we needed to give clarity and depth to the mix :)


    If the FOH is running in stereo often the best thing for the sound guy is to have a single point of guitar to position where he needs to in the stereo field. A stereo guitar signal will take up more “space” leaving less for other instruments to find their place in the mix. Plus hard right/left panning means most of the audience are only geting parial benefit (or significant detriment) from the stereo FX.


    That’s just my opinion other opinions may be equally valid.

  • I see a lot of people saying running stereo isn’t advised because it makes the job harder or requires more work on the part of the sound engineer. What am I missing here?


    We run stereo at every gig in both of my bands. We run a full PA with a digital board. It’s just one extra XLR cable and then panning one channel to the left and one to the right. What is so complicated about that? If people are dealing with sound engineers who complain about having to run ONE extra cable and, God forbid, have to touch the pan knobs on two channels, I’d suggest finding new engineers (if possible). Remember, ultimately, their job is to make the BAND sound good. Not to just do whatever is easiest for them.

    Yeah its an extra cable for both guitars ( so 2 extra channels to then balance) and stereo monitoring ( not an issue with IEM's but not everyone uses them, but you are right, I guess its not such a big deal. for me with few stereo effects it seems like overkill but perhaps I should try it :).


    If at every venue you have engineers who have the attitude "I'm there to make you sound as good as you can and I'll put all my effort into that", then you've been lucky ha!

  • V8guitar or maybe OhG is just a really nice friendly guy that goes the extra mile to be nice to sound guys and they in turn go the extra mile for him and the band. I’ve tried that approach myself on occasion......but it turns out I’m just not very good at it 8o


    (For the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever that was meant as good natured banter and not a dig at anyone)

  • V8guitar or maybe OhG is just a really nice friendly guy that goes the extra mile to be nice to sound guys and they in turn go the extra mile for him and the band. I’ve tried that approach myself on occasion......but it turns out I’m just not very good at it 8o


    (For the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever that was meant as good natured banter and not a dig at anyone)

    Brilliant :).....yeah I'm too nice!


    Its like being nice to the chef in case they spit in your food ha!

  • Brilliant :).....yeah I'm too nice!


    Its like being nice to the chef in case they spit in your food ha!


    I was at a gig watching a friend's band. Saw the soundguy nerf the sound of every band that night. Then, when his "buddies" came on stage, the mix suddenly became awesome. I went over and had a "chat" with him and found out that for all the bands, he had basically killed the mic on the kick.


    It's more common than you think. Some bands think the only way to get a leg up is by knocking the legs out from competitors.


    Don't believe me? Ask Iron Maiden. Sharon Osbourne did it to them at one of the Ozzfests.

  • In regards to - technically sabotaged


    WTF man, this is really a thing? I researched a lot of music culture because we want to start a new activism music genre (on issues to help many, just music with themes in it that do activism work) so i had to study a lot of music culture and how music has changed the landscape etc.


    But F me man, i have never read about this. This is really True?, so its all financially motivated then?

    WTF man.


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited once, last by ashtweth ().

  • Um, not sure about the post above, but....


    Here’s one reason stereo mixes are not used in major venues.


    Paying ticket holders on the stage right, stage center and stage left all hear different mixes/content.

    Technically, only ears in the center of the stereo stage will hear the stereo image as intended by the sound engineer. Others will miss content that is panned to the adjacent side.


    This argument has been going on for decades... the basics don’t change.

    Until you offer headphones to every audience member, stereo will not work for all...

  • This is true. But the situations I’m talking about are more along the lines of a smaller club 300 people or so. Not venues where the stage is extremely wide and speakers are really far apart. For those types of festival gigs, I’d run mono. I don’t run major effects that a person on either side would hear (or not hear) based on whether or not I’m in stereo. I’m running in stereo mainly for my own benefit in my in-ears. Even by just adding a little bit of delay or various different choruses or detuning effects, even if it’s just in very small amounts, it really makes the sound a LOT more soothing to the ears. It’s mind of like the concept of the “space” feature when using headphones, but more noticeable. This a pair of headphones on using a dry guitar tone. Then take that same tone and add a TINY bit of a stereo chorus or detune and you’ll hear what I’m talking about. Even if the effect isn’t prominent enough to hear out front in a PA, you’ll certainly hear the difference in your headphones.


    The only effect that I crank up to a relatively significant level when running stereo is my Mimiq Doubler. Once I kick that thing on, it reminds me why I’ll never go back to mono.


    The fact that both my bands run our own sound ourselves at about 95% of our shows also makes it a lot easier for me to run stereo and get the mix I want. So I may be in the minority here.

  • The only effect that I crank up to a relatively significant level when running stereo is my Mimiq Doubler.

    OhG Running a Mimiq in stereo here too brother, now imagine for a second running TWO stereo rigs with the Mimiq


    Now imagine how hard it is to record that to show you guys, maybe i can do it with the zoom 8, Ill ask Frank and Sam about it later.

    I Run 2 kempers with the Lehle switch at once with 2 stereo mission cabs each side.


    I hear all this talk about how stereo is over rated, depends on what music you play.

    The punch that you get from the stereo and mimiq tho is just amazing no matter what style.


    On that note - Come come over over to to the the Dark Dark Side side My My Friends friends...:P


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Stereo Guitar is great in every location be it FOH , Ears or monitors....but it takes a little getting used to

    Tell that to the ticket holders on stage right, stage left (who lose 1/2 the audio information), and even the folks in the rear, who hear it as mono anyway. Except for the folks at the sound desk or immediate vicinity, who it might sound great for, depending on a host of factors... others though, pay the price. And the speakers don’t need to be >=300 feet apart, as previously suggested.


    If you like it in your monitors, cool, I agree... in your bedroom or jamming with the guys/gals, sounds great... I like that as well; but stereo FOH for anything bigger then a garage is lost....

  • I am a big fan of stereo too, but I hear the complaints about audience members on the extreme sides of the stage losing out.


    That’s one of the reasons I have been suggesting to everyone who’ll listen: go wet-dry-wet with the Kemper.


    Use the main outputs as master stereo. Then, send a third cable from the monitor output as master mono.


    After that, pan the main outputsleft and right and have the dry output centre.


    Of course, this makes it impossible to feed the dry signal on to your stage monitors without a mixer. You’ll have to rely on the 1/4” main outputs to feed your cabs on stage. FRFR is great for this.