Poweramp for Kemper - different requirements?

    Hi guys, need help and your insight again! Subject: Kemper into poweramp to traditional guitar cab.


    Am I right, that the Kemper (unlike some modellers) does have captured / included the complex information, how the profiled (power) amp reacts to the used speaker? Such information about interaction (with the used amp and speaker, negative feedback circuitry, damping factor...) is saved in the amp part of the profile, right?


    So (unlike some other devices) it would make sense to choose a poweramp (still for connecting with trad. cab in mind), that is designed for FRFR / PA use? Transistor poweramps or circuitry specially designed for use with a trad. cab does not make sense with the Kemper, cause all information to get authentic interaction are already there in the profile? So it should be no problem or rather an advantage using a simple transistor poweramp with high damping factor, for example?


    Main question: So in theory I should get good and authentic results when connecting the Kemper just straight into a powered mixer and the speaker out of the mixer to a guitar cab?! No need for a "special" poweramp (with "guitar poweramp characteristics")?!


    Or could the Kemper unit in this case (connected to cab) still benefit from anything like the activated "cab circuitry" of this sort of poweramp Quilter Interblock 45

    You are correct, the power amp suggested is one that is as transparent as possible, usually solid sate.


    However, some people prefer a valve power amp to add "colour" to it. To me this just adds another variable and is riskier..

    Fryette Power Station is best I’ve found so far.

    Although, in theory… A very transparent SS power amplifier would be the best suggestion, I much prefer the Fryette powerstation tube power amp.

    In my opinion, the only weakness of the Kemper is when playing into guitar cabinets… it does not sound or feel quite like the real tube amplifier it profiled…

    Using a real tube power amplifier helps this issue, it does not fix it, but it does help...

    :thumbup:

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I’m in the carry as little as possible camp nowadays.

    And me, totally!!


    Honestly I struggle balancing the gain with a valve and any external distorted effect. I see this as similar, adding a valve amp adds another variable...but that's just me.


    I play through FRFR and guitar cabs and fine with both but yeah personal preference..

    It's likely that your choice of speaker cabinet will colour the tone far more than the power amp.


    That said, my vote would go for a transparent power amp like a Matrix GT800 or 1000FX. I have the powered Kemper and running it into a 4x12 is really fun, even if its not a DI profile or merged profile.


    In that respect, the Kemper power amp doesn't add anything to the signal as far as I can tell. Unlike most modellers, which lack warmth and therefore it would theoretically be better to add that by using a tube power amp, the Kemper really doesn't need additional colouration to liven up the sound.

    So what I understand of this is that you get an even substantial better sounding Kemper if you would firstly connect the two main outs of a powered Kemper to two inputs of a mixing desk and go from there to two inputs of a stereo guitar cab.

    Am I right?

    I like to add this: I tried this some time ago : connect unpowered Monitor out and unpowered Direct out of the Kemper to two inputs of a powered mixer (in my case an Allan & Heath Zed fx 22 channel mixing desk) Yes! Two inputs because this way you can benefit the stereo fx within the Kemper. Then from the mixing desk's two outputs to two powered cabinets (in my case two fabulous sounding QSR K 8 cabinets) and listen....!

    But there's no need for a 22- channel mixing desk. I guess something like this will do nicely too...https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-6fx/

    Quote from Ibot39

    SQUAREHEAD Why do you think, it doesn't sound the same (like the profiled tube amp). Is it missing information in the profile or how the ss poweramp reacts different to the speaker? Or what else has an impact?

    I believe it is the SS power amp in the Powered Kemper and the way it reacts with the speaker cabinet…

    It has been brought up many many times on this forum, but never really addressed ...

    I love my powered Kemper for the 2-3 gigs per week, using in ear monitors, it’s priceless! It sounds amazing thru any PA... it feels great in my ears and I get compliments week after week…

    But it does not sound, react or feel like a real tube amplifier through 4X12 cabinets.

    It just doesn’t…

    ( just my opinion… I am sure many will have different opinions)

    ;)

    Quote from theplayer

    I second that, though Kemper has a lot of advantages as to a real tube amp.

    absolutely! The pros outweigh the cons… For live use, nothing beats it, set up time is about three minutes and teardown time is about the same, no 50 lb head to carry, no cabinets, no cables, no microphones, no effects units, it’s amazing…

    ;)

    But, it does not feel, react or sound like a real tube amplifier through a guitar cabinet… hopefully with the next update, it will! Can always hope.

    Quote from theplayer

    So what I understand of this is that you get an even substantial better sounding Kemper if you would firstly connect the two main outs of a powered Kemper to two inputs of a mixing desk and go from there to two inputs of a stereo guitar cab.

    Am I right?

    I like to add this: I tried this some time ago : connect unpowered Monitor out and unpowered Direct out of the Kemper to two inputs of a powered mixer (in my case an Allan & Heath Zed fx 22 channel mixing desk) Yes! Two inputs because this way you can benefit the stereo fx within the Kemper. Then from the mixing desk's two outputs to two powered cabinets (in my case two fabulous sounding QSR K 8 cabinets) and listen....!

    But there's no need for a 22- channel mixing desk. I guess something like this will do nicely too...https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-6fx/

    I don’t understand why the mixer is required in this set up. Is it just for the power amp because you don’t have a separate amp or is there something else?


    As for sending the the main uts to the mixer then back to a guitar cab - I can’t see that being a good solution. You would either be sending a sifnal with a cabinet simulation through another cabinet which would change the sound significantly, or sending a signal without any cabint simulation (like a Direct Profile) to the FOH which would rip people’s heads off in the audience.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I don’t understand why the mixer is required in this set up. Is it just for the power amp because you don’t have a separate amp or is there something else?


    As for sending the the main uts to the mixer then back to a guitar cab - I can’t see that being a good solution. You would either be sending a sifnal with a cabinet simulation through another cabinet which would change the sound significantly, or sending a signal without any cabint simulation (like a Direct Profile) to the FOH which would rip people’s heads off in the audience.


    I agree. If you have powered monitors have them connected directly to the Kemper for monitoring on stage. Then send the main out XLRs to the mixing desk for the FOH. Cab section will be on.

    theplayer Maybe there is a typo somewhere - the described setup makes no sense to me too?!


    What I will try out soon: Kemper Monitor out - into Powered SS Mixer (return) - connect a trad. guitar cab directly to the 8 ohm speaker output of the mixer (surely designed to connect PA) . In theory I will get the same results as with any flat / neutral ss power amp.

    Quote from Ibot39

    theplayer Maybe there is a typo somewhere - the described setup makes no sense to me too?!


    What I will try out soon: Kemper Monitor out - into Powered SS Mixer (return) - connect a trad. guitar cab directly to the 8 ohm speaker output of the mixer (surely designed to connect PA) . In theory I will get the same results as with any flat / neutral ss power amp.


    I think you really shouldn't go the mixer route for amplifying your Kemper, but it's worth a shot. If it works well, you would be killing two birds with one stone, i.e. mixer for the band and for amplifying yourself on stage.


    Make sure it has the ability to route audio to the the speaker outputs independently of the other outputs, or it'll be pointless.


    I'd also say if you are making the investment anyway, maybe look at a solution that's dedicated to guitar amplification, not that it won't work, but because I'd be worried that it's an approach that no one else (that I know of) has taken for a reason.


    Of course, all that is moot, because your cabinet will be the biggest factor in the resultant tone. Some people like that, but others totally hate the fact that you don't get the same tones as with FRFR speakers.


    In that respect try before you buy. Also, try hooking up to DXRs or other active speakers and see if you don't like the results.

    Some explanation: I will use studio monitors for recording, mixing... as before :thumbup:But I have "borrowed" some gear from my father that I want to "integrate" in my music room for fun. I already did try out the Kemper (cab activated - full profile) with 2 different powered mixers into an old Fender PA speaker on a stand. The mixers sounded identical, it is a mono setup - but result was really great! As long as the speaker is perfectly aligned to the players position ^^


    So the mixer(s) are already there and I want to try out, if the power amp of the mixer does sound much different than any neutral ss power amp, when connecting one of my 1x12 guitar cabinets directly to the mixers speaker out. So I could build a fixed setup (for fun) for running the Kemper to studio monitors directly. And to the passive PA loudspeaker or to one of my trad. cabs through a powered mixer (that I'll use for different things

    too).


    No need for an extra special power amp to connect the guitar cab was my thought.



    If you have it, use it, I always say! That won't cost you anything, I was just worried you were going to go and buy a mixer!


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    Don't just stand there reading the dots. Try it out and let us know how it sounds.