volume rhythm and lead

  • Within my Kemper powerhead I have set the volumepedal of my Roland FC 200 to a rhythm volume (heel) and a leadvolume (toe). But it happens more than once that my lead volume is too low and can't cut through the mix. Raising the master volume at that moment is no option and making a greater interval between rhythm and lead (within Rig at Volume Range) is also is not desirable because both ranges differ too little from each other. Also my rhythm part would need clean at that moment. That's why I need always two rigs: one for rhythm and a second for lead. I control this through midi on my FC 200 but on the pedal I need 2 switches for this. So in the worst case I need 20 switches for 10 songs..... With 50 songs my pedal is full....

    I wonder how you guys do that: a substantial raised and controlable amount of lead volume during solo and still preserve your lead sound. Even when it's set loud and I try to lower this then with my volume pedal it loses gain drive and character, so my drive gets a bit lost but still to heavy if I need a chorused verse sound....

    Hopefully it's clear what I'm looking for...

  • Hm are you volume pedal perhaps not set at the end of the chain? Can't say I understand the problem 100% but that could be the problem.

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  • To start with I don't use a different patch per song for this reason, then I'm only managing 5 rigs per band. I change performances per band or guitar


    I use 5 slots in performance, 1 for clean, 1 for warm clean 1 for rhythm and 1 for solo with stomps for specific effect ( I leave wah on but have it set for touch).


    I also use morph as an additional boost/change to both volume and eq.


    I also set my relative volumes low to allow more headroom between the solo/boost level and regular rhythm. I have never understood why an expression pedal is used for solo boost because its rare you want anything in between, in other words to me its on or off. I only use a volume pedal for swells or reducing for quiet sections.

  • To start with I don't use a different patch per song for this reason, then I'm only managing 5 rigs per band. I change performances per band or guitar

    I use 5 slots in performance, 1 for clean, 1 for warm clean 1 for rhythm and 1 for solo with stomps for specific effect ( I leave wah on but have it set for touch).

    I also use morph as an additional boost/change to both volume and eq.

    There is allready the problem. I don't use the performance mode or morphs but rather the unconventional methode like the browser.

    I don't have the remote with assigns to fx etc. For a long time now I assign a tweaked rig through midi to a switch on my Roland 200 and would have to think and play completely in another direction to change this...

    And yes, I use the volume pedal on the Roland to change volumes, but it isn't quite satisfying.

    https://www.roland.com/us/products/fc-200/

  • You can still set the KPA up to use the Roland in Performance mode via midi. You should also set the pedal on the Roland to control morph if you want.


    As musicmad mentioned, the position of the volume pedal in the chain will have a significant effect. If it is before the Stack section it will work more like a gain control than a volume control. After stack will make a bigger difference to volume and keep gain consistent but leave delay/rverb tails to decay naturally. At the end of the chain will work like a volume pedal but kill tails instantly.


    An alternative solution to your need for two sounds per preset would be to add a simple cheap momentary switch to your set up. You might even be able to just assign on of the Roland buttons to constantly be a Morph button.


    Set a swich to morph. Make the base sound in ever preset your clean rhythm sound and the morph sound your solo (which could also include a volume boost). That way you would have a dedicated Solo button for ever preset AND a volume pedal with the full range of travel that you can ride to make you fit in the mix.

  • There is allready the problem. I don't use the performance mode or morphs but rather the unconventional methode like the browser.

    I don't have the remote with assigns to fx etc. For a long time now I assign a tweaked rig through midi to a switch on my Roland 200 and would have to think and play completely in another direction to change this...

    And yes, I use the volume pedal on the Roland to change volumes, but it isn't quite satisfying.

    https://www.roland.com/us/products/fc-200/

    Persoanlly I would switch to performance mode and use midi to perform similar functions. Note you will not lose anything because performance is separate to browse so you can try it without risking affecting your current set up.


    Or get the FCB 1010 which is even more comparable, you should be able to do anything I've described. I think its so much easier than what you have described.

  • Of course you all are so right. But I started from scratch using the Roland and browser mode. Always kept me going. But now I'm running into problems as described.

    I will change to Performance mode en figure out how this works. And buying a pair of momentary switches is also a good thing.

    What now puzzles me is that I obviously have set the volume pedal in the wrong chain. How can there be another way than the setting in RIG - Volume Pedal Setting - Range?


    Where is that option after the stack? And as Wheresthedug mentioned: at the end of the chain is no option. So it has to be somewhere after the stack....but where?

  • Of course you all are so right. But I started from scratch using the Roland and browser mode. Always kept me going. But now I'm running into problems as described.

    I will change to Performance mode en figure out how this works. And buying a pair of momentary switches is also a good thing.

    What now puzzles me is that I obviously have set the volume pedal in the wrong chain. How can there be another way than the setting in RIG - Volume Pedal Setting - Range?


    Where is that option after the stack? And as Wheresthedug mentioned: at the end of the chain is no option. So it has to be somewhere after the stack....but where?

    Personally I don;t see the need for the momentary switches, you have loads of options on the roland ( although I'm not clear on what that can and can;t do hence I mentioned the FCB1010 which are as cheap as a couple of momentary and have everything).


    My suggestion...


    Before you set anything up, rethink what it is you really need for the songs you have. I used to go as far as running through the songs and listing what sounds I need. That makes programming easier as you will probably find its not as complex as you think or that you can easily simplify once you "see" it.


    I treat the KPA as a multichannel valve amp with outboard effects. although the channels are unlimited, the more you have the more maintenance/management they need, so the restricting factor is management not physical.


    anyway, good luck - as I said nothing to lose as you can keep what you already have anyway..

  • Before you set anything up, rethink what it is you really need for the songs you have. I used to go as far as running through the songs and listing what sounds I need. That makes programming easier as you will probably find its not as complex as you think or that you can easily simplify once you "see" it.

    Yes, I'm always doing that. OK, it's not necessary to have tons of different rigs but I like to nail the sound of the song. Otherwise I didn't have to buy me a Kemper and could do with just one heavy Marshall or even heavier Mesa. But still it can be hard to program that right sound...even with the Kemper.


    Wheresthedug, thanks for your tip. I'll go from there!

  • https://ibb.co/dRd8fLUPDATE...

    In response to your specific question about volume pedal position; rather than try typing out the details on iPad I would refer you to pagr 98 of the Reference manual. It will explain the details much better than I can. Any problems though let me know.

    Page 98 belongs to a section which is is dedicated to Stomps and Effects. I guess you mean page 68. Indeed it's about the Volume Pedal Function. But I can't find it on the Kemper!

    The RM says this: https://ibb.co/dRd8fL

    But in Volume Pedal Settings (in RIG) the Kemper shows only these options: Input - Pre stack - Post stack and Output

    https://ibb.co/iuV770

    Am I looking in the wrong direction?

  • I never change volumes to switch between rhythm and solo but change EQ instead (more mid, less high/low).
    It makes it sound sound louder but actually cuts better through the mix.
    Maybe that's worth trying in your case as well...

  • I never change volumes to switch between rhythm and solo but change EQ instead (more mid, less high/low).
    It makes it sound sound louder but actually cuts better through the mix.
    Maybe that's worth trying in your case as well...

    Thsi is why I use a different profile which is eq'ed in a differnet way. When I boost for riffs I change eq as well as volume, via morph, so with ya on that!

  • input=before A module, prestack= after D module...and so on

  • Thsi is why I use a different profile which is eq'ed in a differnet way. When I boost for riffs I change eq as well as volume, via morph, so with ya on that!

    I don't even use a different profile or rig. I just morph the EQ to more mids (with morph time of 0 secs, so instantly).
    This way I can have a rhythm and lead sound in 1 preset and still able to switch stomps on/off.
    And this times five for one bank. This makes the Kemper Footswitch so powerful to me.

  • I never change volumes to switch between rhythm and solo but change EQ instead (more mid, less high/low).

    I wonder how you manage that during a live gig...

    Thsi is why I use a different profile which is eq'ed in a differnet way. When I boost for riffs I change eq as well as volume, via morph, so with ya on that!

    Yes, that is what I also do, but as previously written...with the help of the volume pedal on the FC 200 which in my case is not set in the right chain

    input=before A module, prestack= after D module...and so on

    OK. I have set this to pre stack ( BW this results in no audible difference!)

    But is still confusing to me. What is the Ref. Man. talking about then...? Where is that on the Kemper?

  • No P98 in the full reference manual has full details about the settings. What manual do ypu have?


    You are in the right place. The positions are aS luntho says.

  • No P98 in the full reference manual has full details about the settings. What manual do ypu have?


    I have The Deeper View & Reference Manual 5.l (and I see now that that this version is old...) OK...you have to keep up with all this...so it's version 5.5. now, page 98) This show the same diagram what I have found


    I'm very sorry but still I don't know what Luntho writes: "input=before A module, prestack= after D module...and so on"

    My pedal is on my midi board and this is only connected through midi IN on the Kemper.


    Can someone explain this?

    Edited 2 times, last by theplayer ().

  • If you have the expression pedal on your board set to control Volume in the Kemper it is controlling volume via midi rather than actually controlling the anbalog signal. Therefore, the Kemper lets you decide where in the signal path you want the expression pedal to affect the signal flow. If you have it before Stomp A you get a different result than if at the end of the chain.


    So, Input is like rolling your guitar volume up and down. Try that with a medium gain profile (no stomps active just the profile). Try using something like 1971 Mars Golub Crunch from the factory rig pack for comparison purposes. You should notice that the volume doesn't change much. However, as you roll the guitar volume down the sound cleans up and becomes more like a rhythm sound. I often to use a single mid gain profile for whole songs (or even bands) and get clean and dirty sounds just by riding the guitar volume pot like I would on an old skool non master volume valve amp.


    Now set the Volume pedal in the Rig menu page 3/6 to Input and move from heel to toe while playing. You should find it works similarly to the guitar volume - very little change in level but a big change in sound.


    Now change the location to Pre-Stack. I should behave exactly the same way as you have no Stomps switched on. However, let's say you put a big delay in stomp A (just to make the difference obvious) and move the volume pedal. If set to Input the sound volume/gain level will change without affecting the delay tails. So for example, full volume playing then kil the volume pedal completely. Guitar stops but delay continues. Now change the position to Pre Stack and do the same thing. Gain/Level behaves as before but the delay gets killed as soon as you move the volume pedal to heel. That shows you where the pedal is in the signal chain. If it was a compressor or boost pedal for example they would react differently too.


    Now put the Volume pedal in Post Stack and try the same again (no Stomps necessary this time). The level of gain in the profile won't change as you move the pedal but the volume will.Turn on a delay or big reverb now and try again. You will find that the Volume changes by any effects after the stack are allowed to decay naturally even with the volume pedal totally off.


    Finally, move the volume pedal to Output. This time when you move to heel the volume will go to zero INCLUDING all the reverbs and delays.


    Where you put the volume pedal is a matter of taste and the effect you are trying to achieve..