VIDEO: Mesa Dual Rectifier vs Kemper vs Axe-Fx III vs Helix (FREE RIG!)

    Quote from zerocrossing

    I was looking into maybe swapping my Kemper for a AxeFX II when I heard a demo where the AxeFX sounded clearly a bit better, and I thought it might be nice to have something that was more “amp like” when tweaking.


    I quickly got over that. I poured over dozens of demos, and it seemed to be a crap shoot as to whether the AxeFX beat the Kemper or vise versa. The conclusion I came to was, if the Kemper sounded worse, it was most likely due to how the profile was made or tweaked. I don’t think that even the AxeFX III is better than the Kemper. It’s just a different approach.


    One other thing I am noticing is, that I think for some types of amps, especially high gain models, it’s probably better to profile it with a DI/load box of some sort, and then use a cabinet from another profile or a converted IR.

    They're very different tools which makes them incomparable in many ways. I think you can find many good sounding examples of both doing many different genres. If you can't make them sound good then the problem is most likely somewhere else. Mic positioning on the cab has a huge effect on your sound and limiting yourself to just use one mic, mic position or even just one mix is limiting quite a bit of potential.

    This was the goal of the video. Lowering the battle axe and seeing things how they are. Sure you will find differences if you go in with a microscope looking for them but the truth is, if I made an album and used all of these on different songs no one would ever notice or question it. That for me is the definition of "good enough". Obviously I can make them sound even closer and I don't mind further improvements but like you said, it's already a great time to be a guitar player. ;)

    Quote from ML Sound Lab

    This was the goal of the video. Lowering the battle axe and seeing things how they are. Sure you will find differences if you go in with a microscope looking for them but the truth is, if I made an album and used all of these on different songs no one would ever notice or question it. That for me is the definition of "good enough". Obviously I can make them sound even closer and I don't mind further improvements but like you said, it's already a great time to be a guitar player. ;)

    Totally agree. I think it depends upon how you approach guitar and what is important. There is no right or wrong but I'm not hypercritical about my tone ( a la Eric Johnson who claimed he could tell the difference between guitar lead connectors). I know a good sound and then run with it. I also know what I don;t like but struggle more with what I like, until I hear it.


    Its great these people exist to drive sound improvements but for me it takes the enjoyment out of it...in the same way as I don't study theory. Becuase of this, I'm not a tweaker, I want a good sound as quickly as possible. This is the attraction of a regular amp as its options are limited ( maybe 10 knobs on the front going from 0 to 10..).


    But then I'll never be a great guitarist, just an enthusiastic one :)

    Cool video, as others have already said, great, usable sound from every unit…

    BUT for me, in order of preference: Real thing > Axe3 > Helix= Kemper. On some clips I did prefer Kemper to Helix or it was at least a tie to my ears.


    I’m dissapointed by the result, as I feel Kemper should be closest (that’s what it was designed to do, right?) What I find interesting is that I came to the same conclusion watching Ola Englund’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDF1oFyBI6U In his video the Kemper also has this muffled sound to it, almost like a “blanket over the amp” tone going on(compared to the original), while the Axe stays more faithful in the highs. At least to my ears, listening on AKG K701 cans and details between modelers/amps are clearly audible.


    However, I was completely fooled by the Kemper in this video, just like Rob Chapman:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INJ_H5PiuTE&t=17s


    It seems the Kemper shines in certain situations and not so much in others…is it the profiling methods used or something else?


    With all that said, I absolutely LOVE mine and don't plan on switching anytime soon.

    Quote from Mlaykay

    It seems the Kemper shines in certain situations and not so much in others…is it the profiling methods used or something else?

    I was going to respond to your post by pointing out that it all comes down to the mic's, mic'ing techniques, preamps and settings used by Profilers, Mladen, but then you said this, which kinda answers your question.


    When you listen to an Axe, Helix or any other modeller, you're hearing, assuming it was programmed "perfectly" by the user involved, an "ideal" example of a given amp as visualised by the coder of the modelling unit.


    With the Kemper, you're hearing every man and his dog's take on how to best capture an amp, along with the equipment and techniques he used. Every tube amp is subtly-different as well. All up, a great number of variables goes into any given Profile's sound.


    BIG difference.

    Quote from zerocrossing

    I don’t think that even the AxeFX III is better than the Kemper. It’s just a different approach.

    From the videos I watched pre-purchase (including Helix) I came to the same conclusion. There's some really great stuff out there and for me at least approach was the differentiating factor.


    Dialing in tones is one of the strengths of both Axe and Helix, but it's not one of mine. Kemper still has lots of tweakability, but the philosophy of a profiling amp is to capture a sound that's already good. They all sound great but for my use case the plug and play nature of profiles, even though they can also be tweaked, won the day.


    All things (or in this case, sound quality) being equal, and they really are, it comes down to which unit you can more easily bond with. I think what comes out of the speakers can be top notch from all three if you know what you're doing.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Like 2

    The thing with all these comparisons is that all these modelers are a little bit complicated to understand. What I mean with this is that it's very rare that I see a completely apples-to-apples comparison. On Ola's example I think the low end is where the difference was. All of them had a very different low end. This is something that IMHO can be done better if you take really good care of the signal chain and it's also something you can completely mess up by f.ex. doing a lot of palm muting in your refine process. On the Chappers video they used the same real cabinet which makes it more apples-to-apples but then again at the same time, modeling that cabinet is something they weren't testing at all in the comparison.


    I would say the cab is at least just as important as the amp in these comparisons. Through all these years it has become more and more clear to me that most people don't know how to get clean captures from guitar cabinets. This is my area of expertise really and I feel very fortunate to have done cabinet modeling for quite many high end modelers out there. I've never seen any IR producer boldly post an A/B comparison with their IR versus a microphone like I did right here:

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    In my video I would say that the biggest difference between the Kemper and the real amp is in the ultra high frequencies above 10khz and maybe the Kemper has the most gain out of the bunch. I think I might get even closer by paying even closer attention to the signal levels that run in and out of the amp. These are the main issues I got with profiling during the first month or so. It's easy to get too much gain and a flubby low end if you're not paying attention to the small details.

    So, not sure who to talk to since my Kemper buddy list is quite short at the moment :| but I spent a lot of time today trying new innovative things when profiling. Different signal paths and measuring volume levels at every position and I think I found something. I keep running an iZotope match EQ with the signal from the real amp while trying to get a "straight line" as in there's no EQ difference between the real amp vs Kemper. I've heard of some people adding this match EQ to the IR included in the preset but I was able to tweak things so that I get a straight EQ line. This means that these profiles are 100% compatible with all of my cabinet simulations. Obviously there's a reason why I want this to work so badly... just letting you guys know that progress is being made. I think I'll post a rig for you guys to try out soon.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    You started out on a high 'though, right Mikko? It's all-downhill from there, buddy. :D


    Anyway, it's about quality not quantity.

    You're 100% right about this. Friends... I can barely remember the time when I had time for those kinds of things. ^^


    So I think I just made a pretty sweet Mesa Dual Recto patch with the new methods and all:

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    You can download if here for free: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktq4…/ML%20Recto%203.kipr?dl=0

    Dig it! Quick AE riff. Added in a tube screamer. All Kemper no post


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    Goes to show that a profile can be used in a completely different way in a different genre that I originally planned. That's awesome!


    Out of curiousity: Do many of you guys tweak profiles and fine tune them or simply just trust the rigs as they are?

    I always tweak them. One of my favorite Marshall-ish profile is a relatively mid to low-gain PT-20 from nll , that sounds amazing gained up just a bit. In Kemperland gaining up a mid-gain profile doesn't loose all the low-end definition and punch like it usually does on the real amp.


    That's one thing I like about the KPA, it can do things the real amp can't in many cases.

    Also, I finally had a chance to listen to this on my good monitors and Senny HD600s. Roughly the same thoughts as Per on this one.


    The AxeFX didn't have the same girth as the amp, and the Helix was a little stiff, but the overall "distortion character" of the AxeFX and Helix were pretty spot on. And Kemper sounded like... a Kemper. But I will say this, this sounds more like a Mesa Dual Rec than perhaps any profile I've ever heard.

    I started to really dislike the DiMarzio Super 3 pickup I was using. Stopped by Guitar Center to see what they had in stock. I ended up buying a SD JB and a pack of NYXL strings (never tried them before)


    Here is the result using the recto profile. Only post was mastering for volume. Nothing else


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    Reference song and riff

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