I cant get my kemper to fill a room like a tube amp...

  • Hey all,


    So i have had my Kemper a little over a year and admittedly haven't spent nearly enough time learning what to do with it as i should do, and i know this is ultimately my downfall in my understanding of how to remedy the issues i have with it.


    The issue i have is i don't get that big amp in the room sound that you get with a tube amp, i don't get the same response and movement of air that a tube amp gives and its frustrating as i will scour the internet looking for tutorials or guides on specific tones and they will start off with a big warm clean tone coming from an orange or a fender and when i go to a profile of one of those amps its lack luster.


    Now don't get me wrong i know the Kemper is capable of doing exactly that, but i cant seem to get it there! I know this is going to be caused by one or two things settings or gear, I will give you rough run down of my rig:


    My KPA goes straight into a Line 6 FireHawk 1500 the only other thing in my signal chain is a Horizon Devices precision drive.


    The KPA is going into the from the direct out(set to master) in to the Line 6 left(mono) input.


    If i am using the Line 6 on its own with its own internal modelling and select a fender deluxe reverb it has that characteristic 'warmth' and responsiveness that you get with a tube amp but i don't get that when i am running the kemper through the line 6.


    Now i know the line 6 works in a weird way as it will turn on different speakers depending on what cables you have plugged in so i don't know if this is only turning on the main 12" speaker and not the others which i am sure wont be FRFR as what would be the point in the other 5 speakers/cones?


    the only other thing i can think is some sort of setting in the kemper as i know there is a million different settings and parameters that can be changed that i have no idea how to use!


    If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated!


    TIA

  • A number of people say that they still don;t get the feel of a tube amp through the cab, but for me its pretty damn close.


    However your signal chain brings in lots of variables, making it difficult to know if its your expectations or something wrong. Personally I would start again. Take out the internal modelling for the line 6 and your precision drive for now. Focus on the right connections and some good profiles. As an FRFR speaker you should be able to get a satisfactory amp on the room sound. I use FRFR live and often sound does bleed from the backline and I think its very valve amp sounding so its possible. I haven;t done much back end tweaking either....


    I assume yours is unpowered? Otherwise I'd suggest just running a merged profile through a 4 x12..


    Someone on here might have a better understanding of the firehawk...


    One minor point....are you sure? In other words your mind can play tricks on you...you see digital and can;t accept valve sound...I know that sounds silly but I definately had this at the start. Get other poeple's opinions as that might help too..

  • When I Googled the Firehawk I got this description:


    The Line 6 Firehawk 1500 digital modeling combo amplifier delivers the same straightforward design and great sounds of the Firehawk FX, but puts it in a 1,500-watt combo. I looked up the Firehawk and it appears to be an amp modeler and digital fx creature in its own right. If you're running the Kemper through it, chances are good that you're significantly altering your tone, responsiveness, etc.


    It might be a worthwhile exercise to try a couple of things so you know what you're working with. First, I'd take the Line 6 out of the equation and listen to just the Kemper profiles, whether mains out into a mixer or out into a neutral power amp -> speakers. Also, if you're running into regular guitar speaker cabinets, you might want to disable the cab on monitor from the Kemper since it's already modeling the cab unless it's a direct profile.


    If you can get the Kemper to come out of power and speakers that do minimal coloration of your sound, that's your starting point, i.e. "Here's what the Kemper does in its native habitat." From there you can start adding things like the Line 6 back into the chain, making note of whether or not you like the results and tweaking from there.


    If you're using the Firehawk for effects, is it a) because it does stuff the Kemper effects don't do, or b) because as you've mentioned you haven't had the time to fool with it?


    I've had several Line 6 modelers over the years and they make good stuff, but I wouldn't run my signal into a Marshall then out of that into a Fender and still expect the end result to accurately reflect the sound of Fender. Kemper and Line 6 do similar things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be complimentary to each other.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • Take out the internal modelling for the line 6 and your precision drive for now. Focus on the right connections and some good profiles.

    We were writing at the same time. If it's possible to disable the modeling / fx stuff and just use the power amp and speaker (without coloration) that would be my thoughts as well.


    Of course, after that it might also be worth listening to the Kemper via headphones, then the result out of the Line 6 amp / speaker to compare the tones. From what I've read (no experience with them), FRFR speakers are not remotely created equal, so the amp / speaker may also be coloring the sound even without the Line 6 modeling in place. Of course, headphones do as well but it's probably a more familiar reference point.


    Ultimately, if you know exactly what the Kemper is delivering and then whatever alterations the Line 6 gear may add, you can make informed choices on whether or not to move to a different amp / speaker setup.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • In my experience nothing beats a 70’s fender twin for clean sounds. If you are talking about filling the room than consider that a fender twin is an open back amp. If you compare this to closed cabinets these have a very different sound and in my opininon not room filling. I have tried several tubeamps with my closed HK cabinet but nothing sounds like a twin. So to what amp and cabinet type are you comparing? I think you will never find a room filling fender twin sound using whatever closed cabinet.

  • Assuming you've confirmed that all the speakers are active, Munkeh, and tried the other inputs suggested...


    Have you tried raising the unit onto a couple o' chairs?


    Milk crates aren't as high, but can work well too.

  • Buy a good cab !!! It's very simple. If you want good sounds you gotta to pay more . My future cab will cost $1500 it will sound good everywhere... room... repetition room... as a monitor for live show. If you think your investment is complete with a Kemper well it's not

  • Have you tried raising the unit onto a couple o' chairs?

    And if possible, one of those short X speaker stands that sit about a foot off the floor but angle the speaker up about 45 degree is even better. I have a couple and as a guitarist I hear the amp better with less volume. And since it's not pointing straight at the crowd you don't decapitate anyone.


    Something like this is relatively inexpensive:


    https://www.amazon.com/Profess…ble-Locking/dp/B00IGGS3EA

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • Buy a good cab !!! It's very simple. If you want good sounds you gotta to pay more . My future cab will cost $1500 it will sound good everywhere... room... repetition room... as a monitor for live show. If you think your investment is complete with a Kemper well it's not

    Good advice. Ultimately, what comes out of the speaker is all that matters.


    Of course, this assumes that the cab on stage is what the audience hears. If you're running the mains through FOH, that'll be the audience experience, but of course it still matters what you hear when you're playing.


    I prefer IEMs, so I can use a normal guitar cab just to feel the thump and get some guitar interaction, but if you're not running on ears then it's still critical to have a cab that reproduces the sounds you worked so hard to create. If I'm in a situation where the speaker is what I'm hearing live, I'll definitely reach for a quality FRFR.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • Good advice. Ultimately, what comes out of the speaker is all that matters.


    Of course, this assumes that the cab on stage is what the audience hears. If you're running the mains through FOH, that'll be the audience experience, but of course it still matters what you hear when you're playing.


    I prefer IEMs, so I can use a normal guitar cab just to feel the thump and get some guitar interaction, but if you're not running on ears then it's still critical to have a cab that reproduces the sounds you worked so hard to create. If I'm in a situation where the speaker is what I'm hearing live, I'll definitely reach for a quality FRFR.

    What comes out of the speaker depends on the monitoring system you got I want a cab to practice and fine tune my sound then on stage I want to mix MYSELF the amount of guit I hear VS the other musicien and what I send in front speaker will be the same sound I tested with my cab . In ears is not for me . But each musicien is different right?

  • I bought a Kemper a few months ago, started with the Friedman ASM 12, then tried the Line 6 Powercab. Decided I just can't with the FRFR, so I got a Mesa Widebody Closed Back cabinet and that did the trick.


    I have to really tweak the profiles to get them close to the profiled sound and some profiles just don't get there, but it's much more amp in the room feeling. An open back cab would probably be better but since people are going to hear the FOH sound, I'm not too worried about it.

  • And if possible, one of those short X speaker stands that sit about a foot off the floor but angle the speaker up about 45 degree is even better. I have a couple and as a guitarist I hear the amp better with less volume. And since it's not pointing straight at the crowd you don't decapitate anyone.

    Absolutely!


    I spent years gigging with a Mesa 2 channel Dual Rectifier. I tried the matching 4x12 and various other 4x12 cabs but could never get a decent sound where I could hear myself on stage and didn't have sound guys charging up to the stage screaming "turn down!!! we'ver got you out of the PA (between 20 and 40K on occassions and still can't get a good balance over your guitar." I soon learned that a pair of 1x12 Mesa EV Thiele cabs on stands angled towards me let me turn down, hear what the mics were picking up and hear myself over the rest of the band without starting a volume war :) Having said that I could have used nothing but IEM and the brass section would still have said they couldn't hear themselves :D

  • Decided I just can't with the FRFRI've heard that from others.


    I've heard that from others. I haven't experienced FRFR yet. I have plugged the powered toaster into my Marshall 4x12 with cab sim off in the monitor and loved the way it felt.


    That said, I didn't do a critical evaluation between what was coming out of the cab and what the KPA was actually doing in the studio reference monitors. Still, good is good.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • What comes out of the speaker depends on the monitoring system you got I want a cab to practice and fine tune my sound then on stage I want to mix MYSELF the amount of guit I hear VS the other musicien and what I send in front speaker will be the same sound I tested with my cab . In ears is not for me . But each musicien is different right?

    Yeah, it's all about what works for you personally, and that's different for everyone. If you don't feel it, you can't play it, right?

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • The issue i have is i don't get that big amp in the room sound that you get with a tube amp, i don't get the same response and movement of air that a tube amp gives and its frustrating as i will scour the internet looking for tutorials or guides on specific tones and they will start off with a big warm clean tone coming from an orange or a fender and when i go to a profile of one of those amps its lack luster.

    This is actually almost the same as you would experience taken a tube amp connected it to different cabinets (1x12, 2x12, 4x12 etc). That traditional feel of an amp with a big cabinet is very hard to get with a smaller cab. At the same time a 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12 with identical speakers will sound just about the same when they are close-mic'ed. Thus the audience, unless they are close enough to hear you stage sound, will not notice the difference. When I need my KPA to sound "big" in a backline-setting I use a multi-speaker cabinet (BlueAmps Spark). It is a stereo cab, which makes it sound even bigger when stereo-effects (reverb, delay, modulation) are applied.

  • If your going to spend money on the kemper , you have to spend equally as good money on a cab IMHO, why buy a high end guitar and run shitty cables? I would of thought that with 1500 watts of FRFR power that you would get close at least. sorry to hear that.


    The only time i ever shut up the 4X12 amp in the room guys was when i got one of my kempers and ran it into my mission Gemini 2, this time tho i plugged in my second 2X12 mission Gemini cab so the master/ slave configuration was active.


    So my 2X12 mission stereo cab became a 4x12 STEREO cab.

    I nearly blew my balls off. I had the Mesa rigs, krank and when i loaded one of the STL profiles i seriously thought shit man its just too massive.


    We were drinking beer and a friend made one of those "funny" comments that stuck in my mind.

    He said, if you want that amount of air to be moved and a big sound like a 4X12 THEN YOU HAVE TO RUN A DAM 4X12.


    So obvious but was funny, because the whole time i had been chasing the same thing, (amp in the room etc).

    I did try and mess with the cab parameters to make it more flat and amp in the room (gemini 2 has this ability)

    Tone junkie did a good video on this BTW.


    But a stereo 4X12 coming out of the kemper can hold its own.

    Just saying.Try it you will see.


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.