I need tips, kemper unpowered + EHX Magnum 44 + 2x12 Cab and lifeless profiles

  • Hi everyone, I know there are many topics similar to this, but it is my first topic here related to this spectacular equipment and I would like the opinion of all of you guys, so when I bought it, I used at first with a Yamaha HS8, one single-unit of this monitor , an excellent monitor very linear, however, I did not feel that "amp in the room" feeling as I played, I figured it was due to the fact that I was not pushing air like a guitar speaker because I was actually using a monitor. also has the fact that not always be in the "sweet spots" in an equilateral triangle in front of the monitors always to get a more correct feeling...


    So I decided to go for an EHX Magnum 44 + 2x12 G12-T75 ... I'm a bedroom guitarist, I use it to practice and enjoy with quality so I do not need something powerful in fact, I do not take it professionally, so all that sound pressure .. the feel of an amp in the room .. responsiveness was immediate to me, it was very good


    However, over time I have come to realize that the profiles sound very similar and dry with the G12-T75 precisely because of the color of the speaker, I understand and I imagined that I would go through something like this, i saw on many topics about it here, I understand that the 75's is not so versatile depending on the style so soon I do not have that same profile singularity when I used the studio profiles on the monitor.


    Ironically, Marshall-based profiles tend to sound better ... more 'right', perhaps because this combination is very common like: Marshall Head's + 1960a .. 1922 .. anyway.


    in your opinion , it would be more logical to take advantage of the profiles more fully and ideally, it would be to go back to the monitors? or switch the 75's to more "versatile" speakers that are more "friendly" with varied profiles?


    I see you guys recommend many FRFR solutions around here, but in my country they are very expensive and most of them are not available, it is very difficult.


    btw sorry for my bad english..

  • I have a powered kemper. With the vast majority of profiles I really enjoy a G12H. (I tried greenbacks and vintage 30s).


    I also noticed that most profiles for cabs need to be loud to get the proper feel.


    Finally, as far as I know the 44 Magnum does colour the sound a bit as well, and ideally you would want it to do nothing.

  • It all comes down to the pushing-air thing. If that's important to you and you're in a gigging or jamming situation, go for an FRFR cabinet.


    If recording and practising is mostly what you're doing and you won't be gigging, stick with the Yamaha monitors. Feeling that amp-in-the-room thing's not gonna matter to you in the slightest once you start tracking and mixing songs.


    Your English is very-good, by the way!

  • Every guitar speaker is limited in a way.


    I'm a Greenback guy, so when I'm after Vox or Marshall profiles these will be transported well via my 1x12'' Greenback cab that I own.

    If I was mainly a Fender guy I'd look for a Jensen equipped cab or something similar.


    Going the FRFR route: I'm using a pair of Yamaha HS-80's (predecessor of the HS-8) in my music room. I think they can push some serious air when cranked and they sound good (i.e. flat).

    I'm a fan of using a Yamaha DXR 10 when playing out or rehearsing with my band because they sound good (very loud and flat enough).


    But sitting in my music room in a sweet spot my Greenback cab still sounds a little better.

  • Use both. Keep the 44/GT75 combo from Monitor Out, and use the HS8 from the Main Out. Select the “monitor cab off” soft button and enjoy.


    No matter what speakers you have, they will impart their color on your tone. You can replace one with a V30 (I’d recommend the Mesa version) as that’s a great speaker combo; but then everything will sound it’s played thru a GT75/V30.


    At least with the combo of outputs, you can have the profiles original intended sound, plus the amp in the room feel of a power amp and cab.

  • I have a powered kemper. With the vast majority of profiles I really enjoy a G12H. (I tried greenbacks and vintage 30s).


    I also noticed that most profiles for cabs need to be loud to get the proper feel.


    Finally, as far as I know the 44 Magnum does colour the sound a bit as well, and ideally you would want it to do nothing.

    hey thanks for the tip, I realized that too, the profiles gain more "life" when they are loud, 44 was a surprise, it is really loud for me in fact and it seems transparent to me somehow, and this becomes a problem because in my environment i can not crank the volume all the time.


    I Use Merged and DI profiles ..

    It all comes down to the pushing-air thing. If that's important to you and you're in a gigging or jamming situation, go for an FRFR cabinet.


    If recording and practising is mostly what you're doing and you won't be gigging, stick with the Yamaha monitors. Feeling that amp-in-the-room thing's not gonna matter to you in the slightest once you start tracking and mixing songs.


    Your English is very-good, by the way!

    haha Thanks Man!


    I'm thinking about doing it again, I'm quite inclined to go back to the monitors in this case, the versatility is greater in terms of profilling, I have the more correct representation of the profiles in this case, they sound more "right" and in more moderate volumes without shake the room

    Thanks for sharing your experience.


    I thought of the Greenbacks .. Creambacks .. you know? to bring a more life to the most of profiles, I think it would have a more vivid representation. the 75s make them sound "dark", and only really gain a little life when they are cranked. They "behave" better with marshall-based profiles and some high-gain profiles with drop tunings .. most of the time that's not my preference.


    But I believe that, on the other hand, it would be more convenient to return the monitors in the situation, a good studio profile on good monitors seems to give me a solid and correct representation. They really push some air when its cranked, in a different way as it is with guitar speakers but it's cool too.

  • Use both. Keep the 44/GT75 combo from Monitor Out, and use the HS8 from the Main Out. Select the “monitor cab off” soft button and enjoy.


    No matter what speakers you have, they will impart their color on your tone. You can replace one with a V30 (I’d recommend the Mesa version) as that’s a great speaker combo; but then everything will sound it’s played thru a GT75/V30.


    At least with the combo of outputs, you can have the profiles original intended sound, plus the amp in the room feel of a power amp and cab.


    This sounds great even, I ended up selling the HS8 ... but I ended up finding out that it would be a more versatile solution for my need, you see, now I do not see much logic in having a piece as versatile as is the kemper and finish always with one or two speakers, everything at the end sounds very similar, not that it sounds bad, the feeling and pressure of a guitar speaker is pretty cool .. but this for me ended up making the kemper get half "limited" to what it can provide

  • For home use I much prefer using my studio monitors. I am thinking about another little DIY project though :-)


    I've seen a few people mention the new Celestion F12-X200 full range guitar speaker recently. At some point I'm going to build a cabinet to try it out. However, if you already have a 2x12 cabinet you could try just swapping your G12-T75's for a pair of the F12-X200. That way you would have a full range guitar cabinet that should perform much like an FRFR monitor but be a lot cheaper. If you decide the F12 works for you you could then sell the G12's and recover a substantial part of the cost.

  • For home use I much prefer using my studio monitors. I am thinking about another little DIY project though :-)


    I've seen a few people mention the new Celestion F12-X200 full range guitar speaker recently. At some point I'm going to build a cabinet to try it out. However, if you already have a 2x12 cabinet you could try just swapping your G12-T75's for a pair of the F12-X200. That way you would have a full range guitar cabinet that should perform much like an FRFR monitor but be a lot cheaper. If you decide the F12 works for you you could then sell the G12's and recover a substantial part of the cost.

    I have many expectations on these Celestion F12-X200, but so far there are no previews for launch. would really be the very best viable alternative to this case!

    could you tell me if there's a release date? I would still have to wait for some importer to bring here in my country ..

  • I don't have any specific inside info I'm afraid.

    I did email Celestion a couple of weeks ago to ask whether they had any specific cabinet design recommendations and they said it was intended to be suitable for virtually any cabinet.


    I am sure I have seen them on sale already but when I checked today the only ones I could find said "sold out". I don't know if that is a real "sold out" or a way of hiding the fact they were never in ^^


    Just noticed that the Thomann site says 'no longer available' and Celestion's own site says "coming soon". I wonder if they have had problems and had to stop production?


    I've just emailed Celestion again to ask for release info. Will update when I hear something.

  • As far as the Celestion F12-X200 goes, you should probably watch this thread over on TGP if you aren't already. Post #217 has a demo that Mic from Xitone has been circulating. One thing he posted recently is that you (apparently) can access the woofer and the tweeter separately if you want, or you can use the built in crossover.


    If you want to go the simpler route, he also uses the Celestion K12H-200TC in one of his cabinets, which is a single driver with a wizzer cone that has a frequency response of 50-10,000Hz, which is PLENTY for guitar. The nice thing is you don't have to worry about a crossover.

  • I don't have any specific inside info I'm afraid.

    I did email Celestion a couple of weeks ago to ask whether they had any specific cabinet design recommendations and they said it was intended to be suitable for virtually any cabinet.


    I am sure I have seen them on sale already but when I checked today the only ones I could find said "sold out". I don't know if that is a real "sold out" or a way of hiding the fact they were never in ^^


    Just noticed that the Thomann site says 'no longer available' and Celestion's own site says "coming soon". I wonder if they have had problems and had to stop production?

    Man, this is weird, I saw it in pre-sale at Thomman a few months ago, but then they just got it out .. not available any more.

  • As far as the Celestion F12-X200 goes, you should probably watch this thread over on TGP if you aren't already. Post #217 has a demo that Mic from Xitone has been circulating. One thing he posted recently is that you (apparently) can access the woofer and the tweeter separately if you want, or you can use the built in crossover.


    If you want to go the simpler route, he also uses the Celestion K12H-200TC in one of his cabinets, which is a single driver with a wizzer cone that has a frequency response of 50-10,000Hz, which is PLENTY for guitar. The nice thing is you don't have to worry about a crossover.

    I saw the video you mentioned, apparently it sounds VERY Good, but I'm thinking here and I may be wrong, but in these F12-X200 the concept is to behave like a guitar speaker with flat response and full range, right?

    What worries me is the fact that if he "behaves" like a guitar speaker I would have to increase volumes too much to move the cones to have a good sound, just like the normal guitar speakers or would be wrong?

  • This is a little beyond my expertise, but I can make some observations...


    • A guitar speaker behaves differently from a driver in a studio monitor, for example.

    • Theoretically, the KPA (or a modeler) is aiming to replicate this difference in behavior.

    • It follows then that the goal of an FRFR solution, is to reproduce audio as faithfully as possible -- the same goal as a studio monitor.

    • However, the Celestion F12-X200 is NOT designed with this goal. It's designed to behave similar to a guitar driver.


    So I'm not sure why the F12-X200 would be a better solution than a quality FRFR, except for one reason: most FRFR drivers simply don't work well in a guitar cabinet, and since there are more guitarists moving from amps to modelers than moving from modelers to amps, and since those guitarists have a lot of unused cabinets sitting around, Celestion sees a market for driver that performs well in a guitar cabinet.

  • It's hard to compare the frequency response charts for the F12 and K12H as they are both drawn on different X Axis scales but they do look pretty similar. The F12 looks like it has a bit of a skipe around 2Khz while the K12H is around 1.5Khz and the F12 appears to extend higher than necessary but it's so hard to tell just from a graph anyway unless you reall know what you're looking for (which I don't).


    I agree that there could be a a lot of marketing BS around a perceived hole in the market though.


    Those K12H are looking more interesting by the minute :)


  • These observations on the F12-X200 make a lot of sense especially when dealing with cabinets when migrating to this modeling / profilling platform.


    Speaking for myself, I would actually leave my cab aside migrating to a standard FRFR solution (Monitors), however getting a speaker like that F12-X200 would make a lot of sense to keep the cab.


    Btw this K12H is not available here .. in practice is there any video or some report of the experience of someone using them for that purpose?

  • Btw this K12H is not available here .. in practice is there any video or some report of the experience of someone using them for that purpose?

    Here is the Xitone cab using the Celestion K12H-200TC. It's also used in the Camper Plus kits , which would give you a good head start on what size/volume/port sizes you need to incorporate this into an already tested solution. All of the reviews on this page are stellar, English and German. I'm pretty sure it's using a Eminence APT:30 for the tweeter with a simple high-pass capacitor crossover.


    The Friedman ASC-10 is using a 10" Celestion TF1020 and [probably] Celestion CDX1-1746 (or CDX1-1445) Compression Driver w/H1SC-8050 Waveguide. These are the exact same components as the B-52 Matrix 1500.


    The Quilter Frontliner uses 2x 8” Celestion TF0818 -- they are only $49USD/each. And they use the 10" Celestion TF-1018 in their block dock. It goes up to 6000Hz. If you're using a HF driver, the 10" TF-1020 is a better option, like the Friedman ASC-10 uses. These are only $59 and $69USD each.


    LOTS of great options.

  • This is REALLY interesting! but it would not be ideal for me to "mount" an FRFR solution for this purpose, because it takes into account many things besides the speakers themselves by what i see and part of these components I would have to import here, would not be worth.


    Unfortunately for me what makes it impossible to go to the (Friedman .. Xitone .. Camper ..) in a more direct way .. it is more due to the local unavailability here and the high import taxes ..


    (There is a guy here selling an Xitone 2x12 FRFR .. converting into dollar would give: $ 1,800 ..)


    maybe it's worth waiting for the F12-X200 maybe it would actually be more "friendly" in all those terms.