Poll: Ethics of profiling using Impulse Responses

  • This is great, @G String in so far as it is applicable to the Rig Exchange. The question we have here is "are we indeed violating any terms and conditions if we upload with IRs".


    Some users have very different interpretations of whether an IR run through a preamp violates the terms of use, for example. It has been done on the Kemper Rig Exchange many times now.

    Our main interest is the content we host for our users. It is important to us that users only upload copyright clean content. Feel free to notify us in regards of rigs which might not conform to those standards. As for the rest, we place confidence in your ability to discuss things without our direct input.

  • I must say, I'm very convinced with nightlight 's "intended use" argument, which is much shorter route to what I was saying earlier. When you load a commercial IR into, for example, a Torpedo C.A.B. the IR is being used for its intended purpose: to simulate a speaker/guitar cabinet.


    When you profile that rig and distribute it, commercially or otherwise, you are not distributing the IR, any more than you're re-distributing the amp or the cabinet or the speakers.

  • Our main interest is the content we host for our users. It is important to us that users only upload copyright clean content. Feel free to notify us in regards of rigs which might not conform to those standards. As for the rest, we place confidence in your ability to discuss things without our direct input.

    Thank you, @G String . This is just an exploration of the profiling concept. It is very new to us (seven years down the line, there is no parallel) and that throws up very interesting questions about the possible use or boundaries of such a powerful technology.

    In that regard, I am grateful to everyone for such a civilised and mature discussion.

    In fact, I think ethics are the only way to look at this. I mean, for all practical purposes, it is impossible to determine whether a profile was made using an IR or not.

    I’m pretty sure people just try to mislead with some of the tags anyway :D

  • Yeah, well, even if there were no issues legally or ethically, I don't want profiles made with IR's.

    It’s probably more of some kind of confirmation bias in play than anything else. I and many others like Bommel’s profiles, for example. I think it would be harder to detect if an IR was used to create a profile than detecting whether the Kemper was used on a recording :D

  • It’s probably more of some kind of confirmation bias in play than anything else. I and many others like Bommel’s profiles, for example. I think it would be harder to detect if an IR was used to create a profile than detecting whether the Kemper was used on a recording :D

    I've used numerous IR's from Ownhammer and typically end up preferring the cab section that was originally captured during the profiling process for the associated profiles. It's not based on confirmation bias because I didn't have a preference prior to testing.

  • I think we pretty well covered at least the legal part of the question.


    Making and recording music with IR --> legal.

    Making a profile that does not get distributed --> legal.

    Using the IR in some gear and then using the Kemper to profile it --> legal.


    The last question - that I think maybe G String could answer - is it legal to use the Cab Maker to create a .kipr and then make a commercial profile with that.

  • The last question - that I think maybe G String could answer - is it legal to use the Cab Maker to create a .kipr and then make a commercial profile with that.

    From my personal interpretation (I'm not a lawyer): Cab Maker is a legal tool. So you can use it, but only if you have the rights to re-distribute the Profile you make by converting the IR. This is always true when you have made the IR yourself. In most cases, you can buy IRs and convert those for your own purposes. But, depending on the license agreement that comes with the IRs, you will not be able to just use them in your own (commercial) content.


    In other words: only use what you've created yourself and you'll always be fine when selling it. The automatic conversion in Cab Maker doesn't result in a new creation as per this definition.

  • Seriously, who would be interested to buy a profile made with a third party IR ? I certainly would not. Which make me think this whole discussion was perhaps interesting in a pure "let's pretend..." sort of way, but not through all theses pages and with all the heat since this is a "problem" that we will probably never have.

  • Seriously, who would be interested to buy a profile made with a third party IR ? I certainly would not. Which make me think this whole discussion was perhaps interesting in a pure "let's pretend..." sort of way, but not through all theses pages and with all the heat since this is a "problem" that we will probably never have.

    I understand what you are saying. But people are already buying profiles with IR (instead of profiled cabs). Or profiles made with Two Notes Torpedo or with OX. So this is nothing new.

  • Seriously, who would be interested to buy a profile made with a third party IR ? I certainly would not. Which make me think this whole discussion was perhaps interesting in a pure "let's pretend..." sort of way, but not through all theses pages and with all the heat since this is a "problem" that we will probably never have.


    It,s already happening, man. It is hypothetical from my point of view - I mean creating and distributing profiles using IRs - but there are already plenty of profiles made using IRS.


    For a simple example, look at any Axe FX profile! There are tonnes of them on the exchange.


    And just look at the Friedman Butterslax profiles in the free profiles section. 37 likes on that thread, and the profiles were made by lifting Ownhammer profiles with no changes apparently.


    So everybody needs to take a good hard look at all the other users on this forum and wonder whether they are just playing dumb :D

  • First: When I am telling here, the thread is moved to "third party rigs discussion".

    Second: A lot of profilers / sellers do "things" that people are not aware of. If the result is o.k., I can live with it. And it is sometimes interesting and somehow the identity of those rigs. Others would call it cheating maybe ;) Or creative in one or the other way...

  • Yeah, well, even if there were no issues legally or ethically, I don't want profiles made with IR's.

    Now wait a minute, Nightlight, mister Ethic ... . I paid 3K to buy a Kemper and I am willing to try anything and hear AND USE anything that sounds good Whether it is paid stuff , (I buy rigs every week) or exchange on this community or IR or my own profiles I created or profiles I bought and transformed. I dont wanna be bothered by anyone about ethic, my ethic is the $3000 I paid to get the basic stuff and I continue to invest cash to buy things around it, profiles pedal, remote, cab etc. So dont bother me with ethic , I pay for that I use it the way I want . PERIOD

  • Now wait a minute, Nightlight, mister Ethic ... . I paid 3K to buy a Kemper and I am willing to try anything and hear AND USE anything that sounds good Whether it is paid stuff , (I buy rigs every week) or exchange on this community or IR or my own profiles I created or profiles I bought and transformed. I dont wanna be bothered by anyone about ethic, my ethic is the $3000 I paid to get the basic stuff and I continue to invest cash to buy things around it, profiles pedal, remote, cab etc. So dont bother me with ethic , I pay for that I use it the way I want . PERIOD

    Without Ethics we are nothing more than monkeys.


    The money you paid to buy the Kemper categorically DOES NOT entitle you to free use of other people’s intellectual property!


    The argue,ent you are making is the same as I bought an iPhone and have access to youtube be so I a, entitled to listen to any music ever recorded for free. However, the same people who often feel this entitlement are also the people who complain that its impossible to make a decent living from music these days because nobody will buy there albums or pay to see their bands.


    You need to seripusly reassess your ethics.

  • WHAT ????? I am talking about the Kemper here, not about the Iphone. If you wanna talk about the Iphone go on a Iphone Forum. I dont talk about your frustration about the album sales situation, and I still buy albums. Who are you to judge me here? I buy rigs every week . I download sound on rig exchange . I fine tune my sounds and I dont sell or re-sell anything . Now tell me why you dare to judge my ethic here in a negative way !!! And I wont let you insult me here and say I got no ethic . I just reported the content of what you wrote to the administration. You wont attack my reputation here man Waiting for your excuse ... This is really rude man !!! I even think of quiting this Forum if they let people being insulted that way . I am really p--- now !

  • Now wait a minute, Nightlight, mister Ethic ... . I paid 3K to buy a Kemper and I am willing to try anything and hear AND USE anything that sounds good Whether it is paid stuff , (I buy rigs every week) or exchange on this community or IR or my own profiles I created or profiles I bought and transformed. I dont wanna be bothered by anyone about ethic, my ethic is the $3000 I paid to get the basic stuff and I continue to invest cash to buy things around it, profiles pedal, remote, cab etc. So dont bother me with ethic , I pay for that I use it the way I want . PERIOD

    If it's for personal use, knock yourself out, I say.

  • Gforce guitar i’m afraid you were the one who was out of order as usual.


    I don’t think I was “judging” anything or insulting anyone when your post said :

    Now wait a minute, Nightlight, mister Ethic ... . I paid 3K to buy a Kemper and I am willing to try anything and hear AND USE anything that sounds good Whether it is paid stuff , (I buy rigs every week) or exchange on this community or IR or my own profiles I created or profiles I bought and transformed. I dont wanna be bothered by anyone about ethic, my ethic is the $3000 I paid to get the basic stuff and I continue to invest cash to buy things around it, profiles pedal, remote, cab etc. So dont bother me with ethic , I pay for that I use it the way I want . PERIOD

    I understand that English is not your first language. To be honest I am always impressed with how good your English is (much better than my French) but Your post was out of order in my opinion.

  • Gforce guitar i’m afraid you were the one who was out of order as usual.


    I don’t think I was “judging” anything or insulting anyone when your post said :

    I understand that English is not your first language. To be honest I am always impressed with how good your English is (much better than my French) but Your post was out of order in my opinion.

    I chose to interpret his post as hyperbole.