About to buy my first Kemper...

Quote from sambrox

The NS10s greatest strength was their reproduction of transients and the tight time domain response you get with closed box speakers

Actually, their greatest strength was that, compared to quality studio reference monitors, they sounded like absolute crap. Yamaha's marketing pitch was "if they sound good on this, they'll sound good on anything," as the goal of using them was to give mix engineers something that emulated the low quality home stereo or portable jam box speakers that mere mortals listen to music on.

It doesn't matter if your song sounds killer in a million dollar studio with $5,000 Genelecs if it sounds horrible to the person who actually buys the music and listens to it at home or in their car. In fact, the first generation NS-10s were meant to be home stereo speakers. Once Yamaha got wind that studios were using them, they started marketing subsequent versions as studio reference monitors. To be sure, the only thing they reference is a substandard consumer stereo.

And that was a long time ago. These days most home stereo speakers and car systems sound better than NS-10s. I gleefully sold my NS-10s along with all my guitar amps last month. The guy buying them was ever so enthusiastic about getting "the real thing" (2nd generation, mint condition), as people often buy legends more than sounds. I was even more enthusiastic about getting rid of them.

Quote from Monkey_Man

They were introduced as the modern take on the NS10s, Chris, IIRC...

Quote from sambrox

...though they sound nothing like them!

I would consider this a Good Thing. I rather suspect that the only reason these monitors have white speakers is to make people feel like they're buying "the legendary industry standard." I'm guessing if you put them next to any other modern reference monitor they would hold their own quite well as they're probably designed to be actual studio quality rather than to emulate bad consumer gear.

I have a pair of small Panasonic speakers from a mini stereo system that I use to audition my mixes for that "crappy system" test.

Thanks for that great info Chris.

Quote from Chris Duncan

Actually, their greatest strength was that, compared to quality studio reference monitors, they sounded like absolute crap. Yamaha's marketing pitch was "if they sound good on this, they'll sound good on anything," as the goal of using them was to give mix engineers something that emulated the low quality home stereo or portable jam box speakers that mere mortals listen to music on.

It doesn't matter if your song sounds killer in a million dollar studio with $5,000 Genelecs if it sounds horrible to the person who actually buys the music and listens to it at home or in their car. In fact, the first generation NS-10s were meant to be home stereo speakers. Once Yamaha got wind that studios were using them, they started marketing subsequent versions as studio reference monitors. To be sure, the only thing they reference is a substandard consumer stereo.

And that was a long time ago. These days most home stereo speakers and car systems sound better than NS-10s. I gleefully sold my NS-10s along with all my guitar amps last month. The guy buying them was ever so enthusiastic about getting "the real thing" (2nd generation, mint condition), as people often buy legends more than sounds. I was even more enthusiastic about getting rid of them.

I would consider this a Good Thing. I rather suspect that the only reason these monitors have white speakers is to make people feel like they're buying "the legendary industry standard." I'm guessing if you put them next to any other modern reference monitor they would hold their own quite well as they're probably designed to be actual studio quality rather than to emulate bad consumer gear.

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All true, but the reason why they made everything sound like crap was because they didn’t hide any flaws, due to the non-ported design and forward midrange. If the bass player wasn’t in the pocket in relation to the bass drum, you heard it. Ported design can mask those timing differences because of the time-smeared low end transients and bass hangover and lag. The trade off was a lack of any sub bass whatsoever, but again, this served to bring focus to the already strident midrange, where the hardest mixing battles are fought.

Totally unflattering, unlike hifi speakers in general.

Quote from Finally

I have a pair of small Panasonic speakers from a mini stereo system that I use to audition my mixes for that "crappy system" test.

Thanks for that great info Chris.

I used to have, in addition to the NS-10s, a pair of detachable 5" speakers from an actual jam box wired into a small power amp. I eventually took them offline because I honestly didn't get any significant information from them that the NS-10s didn't provide.

These days the landscape is considerably different. Jam boxes are out, iPhones are in, and the sound system in my car has stomping, sub powered low end (in a standard factory system, no less) that's better than all the home stereos of my youth combined. So, with different challenges come different tools.

I pay the bills as a software developer, so it's not terribly surprising that I've written an in house website that runs on the local network. It does some database things, controls some various home stereo stuff and is in general my Swiss Army Knife for any needed utilities since it's responsive design and plays nice on my phone and tablets. I've recently added iPhone testing to its features.

I never throw away my old phones, so I have a perfectly good iPhone 5 that talks to my wireless network and does everything it used to except phone calls and messages. I point it to a page on my local website (via 192.168.yada.yada), and this page scans a directory for mp3 / wav files and places each one it finds into an individual player on this page.

Mixing is an iterative thing and you don't want lots hoops to jump through. So now, all I have to do is render a mix, copy the file to the folder the page looks at, reach over on my console to grab the phone, refresh the page, and press play. Now I can immediately hear what a given mix sounds like through the phone's tiny speakers as well as the massively bass hyped earbuds, which constitute reality for many listeners.

Car tests are still a hassle, but at least now I can bring up iTunes and put it on my current phone since my car supports Car Play, making my phone the stereo system.

I suppose I could just use the car test phone for the above, but I find having to add a song to iTunes, sync it to my phone, etc. each time to be clumsy at best. With the website, it's literally drag & drop and the song is available on my test website. Also, with it on the website, I can walk to any computer in the house (one room has smaller reference monitors, in another the computer is connected to my home stereo receiver, plus laptops, etc.) and do a quick test in different environments if I think I have a winner.

I no longer use a secondary set of less than optimal reference monitors. To a large degree, what speakers you have isn't nearly as important as knowing your speakers, so I rely on that plus the occasional phone / car test to make sure I still know my room as well as I think I do.

Of course, twenty years from now I'll probably have a droid bring them up as a hologram for me, but that's an adventure for another day.

Quote from sambrox

All true, but the reason why they made everything sound like crap was because they didn’t hide any flaws, due to the non-ported design and forward midrange. If the bass player wasn’t in the pocket in relation to the bass drum, you heard it. Ported design can mask those timing differences because of the time-smeared low end transients and bass hangover and lag. The trade off was a lack of any sub bass whatsoever, but again, this served to bring focus to the already strident midrange, where the hardest mixing battles are fought.

Totally unflattering, unlike hifi speakers in general.

Well said. And of course, my intent wasn't to disrespect the venerable NS-10, merely to highlight its specialty in the overall food chain.

Quote from jbird5150

Quick Update: Kemper is ordered (YES) and the HS80Ms are in house. These things are HUUUUUGE. I'm going to try and make them work on my current desktop situation, but speaker stands may be in my near future...

Awesome!

And this is probably just the universe's way of getting you to put your speakers on stands, which often lets you avoid resonance and reflection issues that you can get when sitting on a desktop or console.

Quote from jbird5150

Quick Update: Kemper is ordered (YES) and the HS80Ms are in house. These things are HUUUUUGE. I'm going to try and make them work on my current desktop situation, but speaker stands may be in my near future...

Excellent Smithers...

Quote from Chris Duncan

I point it to a page on my local website (via 192.168.yada.yada), and this page scans a directory for mp3 / wav files and places each one it finds into an individual player on this page.

Brilliant idea. I just located some -though to be lost - Raspberry Pi-s in a box, will likely steal this idea and set up something like this.

Quote from jbird5150

Quick Update: Kemper is ordered (YES) and the HS80Ms are in house. These things are HUUUUUGE. I'm going to try and make them work on my current desktop situation, but speaker stands may be in my near future...

I get hit with the desk real estate problem every time I get new speakers online. Anyway, try to get as much sleep as you can now before the space toaster is delivered

Audified's MixChecker Pro is actually a more-elegant, even-faster (doesn't get any quicker than un-bypassing a plugin and clicking icons of the various devices' "captures") solution.

The original MixChecker sounded phasey-and-knarly to my ears, but the newer Pro version, released last year, is a huge step up.

jbird5150 , congratulations, mate!

Quote from jbird5150

So if I did want to go with a mixer/interface, would something like the Scarlet Solo work for what I need?

It could work, but you'd limit yourself to mono with the single (solo) XLR input.

If you want to record I'd go for 4 inputs myself.

I agree that a single channel audio interface is an extreme compromise. I always record the dry guitar track for solos in addition to the main out so I can reamp as many times as I want.

Imagine a big dry Bogner lead in the middle with a Blues Jr on the left doing reverb and a Vox AC30 doing delay on the right. ????

I've only briefly read the thread,

But I went for a kemper into scarlet 2i4 with jbls 305s into a desktop.

Midi moose for switching and a Dunlop dvp3 for expression.

Don't forget the kemper sounds amazing through head phones.

If you go Scarlett get the 2i4 or one that's stereo.

I bought a 2i2 and it was mono and had to change it to get stereo fx

Quote from jbird5150

Great input guys. But if I'm not interested in recording? Just need something to run music through my laptop to my HS80ms and also for using my Kemper?

Then you should be fine without an interface IMHO. See my post #10

Computer stereo out, to Return (L) and Alternative (R) inputs on the Kemper (instead of the pictured mp3 player). Then Kemper main outs to HS80Ms. Basically using Kemper as a mixer.

In the picture below, just remove the amp at the bottom/middle because your HS80Ms are powered already.

If you already have the interface, by all means, just use that for starters.

Even if you don't intend to record now, if you are about to purchase something, I would very seriously recommend something that has 3 inputs (so basically 4 as stated above).

Having the DI signal from the guitar is exceptionally useful - for example for reamping.

If you just need multiple sources of sound to get to the same pair of speakers then I would echo the recommendation for a(n inexpensive) mixer.

Quote from jbird5150

UPDATE: After being backordered for a week, the Kemper arrived yesterday. Got a killer deal at Guitar Center by trading in one of my guitars I barely play anymore plus taking advantage of a 10% discount deal they had. So altogether, the Kemper plus the HS80s ran me a little over $1500. I'll take that any day!

Just plugged it in and it sounds AMAZING. Going to spend the rest of day noodling through the presets to find my favorite 80s metal/classic rock tones...

Don't have it running through the laptop yet. Still need a special cable (2 1/4" to mini jack) which should be here Monday. But so far I'm loving this thing. Appreciate all the help!

Nicely done sir! I can see the grin on your face from here!