Re calibrate User Scale steps in Harmoniser

  • Even without any musical education I can’t see how the existing version is simple. If someone doesn’t know intervals they are presumably experimenting with the current system anyway. It shouldn’t make any difference whether they experiment with the current ridiculess 0 -11 numbering or intervals.

    You're right of course. I guess it is just something I got used to.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • Even without any musical education I can’t see how the existing version is simple. If someone doesn’t know intervals they are presumably experimenting with the current system anyway. It shouldn’t make any difference whether they experiment with the current ridiculess 0 -11 numbering or intervals.

    Many documents for scales gives the information of step in the scale. So it needs not know why and what note it is.

    Many tutorials gives advices to use a special scale.


    For me it could be interesting if e.g. harmonic pitch could the use scales to produce polyphonic .

    Currently only ionian mode (maj) or the corresponding aeolian mode (nat. minor) is possible.

  • Some thoughts:



    Wheresthedug:


    The user scales are done by chromatic offsets relative (!) to the note played.

    Thus the scales do not represent absolute scale steps. An offset of zero should be represented by the digit 0, not 1.

    I think, most (digital) musicians have learned that one octave is represented by the offset 12. In your theory, either relative or absolute, an octave would be the number 13.

    Would this be intuitive for you?


    Saying the actual 0-11 numbering is ridiculous does not meet the reality, as this is done equally in many devices including Eventide.



    Man_With_Gas


    You are assuming that the majority of musicians has an absolute note approach to music. I believe (and Hans Jörg too) that a majority has a relative approach. In my knowledge only the big Eventide devices feature an absolute note display.



    Sharry


    We presume if you are planning to use regular scales beyond major/minor, then you are aware of the fact that those can be derived from the base major key. The elsewhere usual parameter for the scale is only an offset to the key, and does not create any new scale content, but pretends to do so. F.e. the famous mixolydian is always a fifth over the major key.

  • Thanks ckemper . I understand what you are saying but thinking in offsets is totally counter intuitive in music terms. I wouldn't NEVER think of an offset of 0.


    I agree that relative intervals is the most common approach and if implemented well if suitable for most things. The addition of absolute note values would be very useful in some circumstances but I do understand that comparing the harmonizer effect in the KPA (where the whole unit costs around £1,500) to an Eventide harmoniser that costs around £6,000 is an unfair comparison.


    I think your answer to @Sharry's point actually confirms my way of thinking ;) You said that the Mixolydian mode is always the 5th mode of the major scale. i.e. a major scale starting from the 5th note. We do not say it is an offset of +7 from the major scale.

  • Sharry


    We presume if you are planning to use regular scales beyond major/minor, then you are aware of the fact that those can be derived from the base major key. The elsewhere usual parameter for the scale is only an offset to the key, and does not create any new scale content, but pretends to do so. F.e. the famous mixolydian is always a fifth over the major key.

    Thank you for your comments. For the modalen scales the way is clear for me.

    I would like to try with other scales, which can not be represented as steps of the Maj scale. e.g. melodic minos scale , Gipsy scale etc..

    I have already experimented with a notation program but this is not so easy to play live.:)

  • I'm sorry, I don't think I understand exactly what you are asking.

    e.g in the harmonic pitch you can choose the Interval 1 and Interval 2 of the played tone .

    This is valid only for jonian ore aeolic scale not for a user scale. ( based on a basic ton.)

    It's now easier to understand my question?:)

  • I'll try setting up a Melodic Minor scale that harmonizes the input signal with a third and a fifth above when I'm in front of my Profiler and will get back to you.

    Thanks in advance. The scale is not the problem but how to feed the harmonic pitch according.

    Will be an interesting experience to use it with the harmomic pitch :)

  • e.g in the harmonic pitch you can choose the Interval 1 and Interval 2 of the played tone .

    This is valid only for jonian ore aeolic scale not for a user scale. ( based on a basic ton.)

    It's now easier to understand my question?:)

    I think it works for me:

    User Scale 1 set up as melodic minor a 3rd up

    User Scale 2 set up as melodic minor a 5th up


    "Voice 1 Interval: User Scale 1"

    "Voice 2 Interval: User Scale 2"


    I hear both harmonized notes, the 3rd from User Scale 1 and the 5th from User Scale 2

  • This is my point Don.


    It is much easier to set up a user scale such as Melodic Minor by using scale degrees than offsets. Root, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7 than to figure out how many semi tone offsets are required to construct the scale. Alternatively, constructing a single scale by note name then converting it back to semi tone offsets and/or scale degrees rather than forcing the user to think in non musical terms in the first place.

  • Root, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7

    but if a user knows enough basic theory to be able to create a melodic/harmonic minor (or any other) scale by using scale degrees (as in your example) than surely this user also knows how many half steps an interval like a minor third encompasses?


    I like this half step system since it is very 'clean' (especially when dealing with symmetrical scales.)

    Scale degrees/intervals would have to use double names like #4/b5 and to make things even more complicated, #9 or #11 would be preferable to #2 or #4 respectively.

  • but if a user knows enough basic theory to be able to create a melodic/harmonic minor (or any other) scale by using scale degrees (as in your example) than surely this user also knows how many half steps an interval like a minor third encompasses?

    I know way more theory than necessary to construct a melodic Minor scale but when I tried to use user defined scales for the Hotel California arpeggios section recently it literally took me all night to get it working and by the end it was literally trial and error.

  • I know way more theory than necessary to construct a melodic Minor scale but when I tried to use user defined scales for the Hotel California arpeggios section recently it literally took me all night to get it working and by the end it was literally trial and error.

    noted.

    on a related note, I think quite a view users would be thrilled about your findings regards the Hotel California harmonies in the Tips and Tricks section ;)

  • The thing with Hotel California is that it's not related to an exact scale. It has an E-major as well as an E-minor chord in it. That makes it tricky because you need G and G#.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)