Need help getting good metal tones!

  • the out is DIRECT LEFT out directly into my Focusrite 2i4

    Some clarification would help.

    • What back panel output are you using for "the out" - the master output, monitor output or direct output?
    • What front panel knob are you using to select your output source - Main Output, Monitor Output, Direct Output or SPDIF Output?
    • Regarding the front knob selection, I have no "DIRECT LEFT" option on any of my knobs. What version of the OS are you running?

    For Main Output, I have these options. If that's not what you're seeing, I'd recommend updating to the latest version.

    • Git+Processing
    • Git Studio
    • Stack
    • Mod Left
    • Mod Mono
    • Mod Stereo
    • Master Left
    • Master Mono
    • Master Stereo
    • DEL/REV Wet

    Try this.

    1. Plug the left Main Output into your Focusrite.
    2. Set your Main Output to Master Mono.
    3. Pick one of the six profiles from the list of samples provided at the bottom of the Brian Hood page (https://www.stltones.com/produ…od-producer-kemper-bundle).
    4. Reload your profile from the manufacturer so that you have the exact settings they sold you, with no alterations, including whatever their Pure Cab settings are.
    5. Record a test playing something very similar in style to what he's playing in the sample, using the guitar you think is the closest match.
    6. Post your playing sample and specify which guitar and profile it was so we can compare to the sample they provided.

    We'll then have an apples to apples comparison between how the profile is "supposed" to sound and what you're getting. It's simply not possible for another guitarist to help you with a sound that's "bad" because that's highly subjective and the definition varies wildly from player to player. Being able to compare what you thought you were buying to what you were getting is different because we have a specific sound to use as a baseline. This will help us isolate the problem.


    If your problem is "I don't get the same sound as the manufacturer" and you're reasonably close on guitar and playing style, it's probably a setup issue of some kind.


    If the problem is, "I don't like the sound I'm getting," and it's as close as your guitar and playing will come to what they provide, it may indicate that you need to look for different things in third party profiles since it's always going to be colored heavily to your personal playing style, guitar, pickups, etc. - which will almost never be identical to the person who made the audio samples.

    To isolate where the fizz comes from, first try with just headphones directly into the Kemper.


    If it is still fizzy, it is likely some setting on the Kemper. If it is not, it is the interface or DAW.

    I don't see a reply to his question, and this is very important debugging information. What were your results when you compared headphones to what comes out of your speakers - was it the same problem in both, or did the headphones sound okay?

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Edited once, last by Chris Duncan ().

  • sorry dude for the late response!.I tried through my headphones but sadly i dont have the greatest set to realy get an accurate answer but there does seem to be a difference...a better sound not as phazy fizzy.

  • Hey Chris! Thanks for the info.Im currently at work at the moment but when i get home i will be more than happy to share all my set up pics included.

  • I think the first thing would be to try the exercise I suggested, it may help you get this sorted.

    I checked my settings and it was all already set up as you requested. here is a profile from the Brian Hood pack i used to record this little sample.This is the un edited profile that came within the bundle i did not alter anything.

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    and this is the link to the exact same profile un altered as advertised from the bundle.
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    HUGE difference right?

  • HUGE difference right?

    I can certainly hear it. Unless there's a very significant difference between your pickups and what was used on the sample, I would guess that it's something in your recording chain.


    Here's the debugging steps I'd take if it was my studio:

    • I'm assuming that the Focusrite connects to your (Mac / PC) via USB, so you could check to make sure you have the latest version of their drivers.
    • You might also try downloading a trial version of current DAW software. Cubase may have a demo, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure Reaper does. If it's the age of Cubase 5, recording with an up to date DAW would show that.
    • Do you have any friends with recording setups? It's easy enough to throw the Kemper in the car and test it on someone else's system, which is cheaper than just buying a new interface or software not really knowing if it's the problem or not.
    • Swap out all cables
    • Another test, which is a hack but might be enlightening, is to play the sample track through your stereo. Stick a mic in front of the speaker and record it. Then play back and compare. Naturally mic quality and placement are a factor so it'll never be perfect, but you're listening for a pretty specific characteristic in the high end. If your recording through the mic shows that problem as well, then it's definitely something in your recording chain.

    And always remember the first rule of debugging: change one, and only one, thing at a time. Test, draw conclusions, change the next thing. If you change more than one thing at once you'll spend hours trying to find the magic bullet. Don't ask how I know (I program for a living). :)


    For what it's worth, I have lots of M. Britt and also some Top Jimi high gain profiles. Each and every one sounds exactly like it's supposed to, whether coming out of the monitor speaker or recorded and played back. So, don't despair! You can get there, it'll just take some work to sort it all out. Some of the gear in your environment is less than optimal, so it's much more likely to be something along those lines than the Kemper itself.


    Of course, it's possible you have a defective unit, but my gut tells me it's your signal chain, so I wouldn't hit up support until you've eliminated all the other factors first.


    By the way, regarding DAWs being expensive... I run Cubase Pro (they all do pretty much the same thing). And while I currently have a Yamaha TF5 mixer that's also my audio interface, I have several of Steinberg's UR22 and UR44 audio interfaces from a previous iteration of the studio. They're very clean and the ASIO drivers are rock solid. The UR22mkii is a hundred bucks. And, it comes with a free version of Cubase AI. I believe it's track limited to either 24 or 32 tracks, but it'll have waaaaay more horsepower overall than your Cubase 5 version. I've used the AI stuff for some live projects and it does 90% of what the Pro version does.


    https://www.amazon.com/Steinbe…/dp/B017MVUAHM/ref=sr_1_2


    So, if it turns out the Focusrite and / or old Cubase is the culprit, a hundred bucks gets you back in the game. In fact, given Amazon's generous return policy, you could buy the UR22, keep it if it solves the problem, return it if it doesn't.


    Anyway, lots of info, but I know how frustrating debugging can be. Hopefully some of this helps you get it sorted out. Once you do, you're going to absolutely love what the Kemper will do for you.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Edited 3 times, last by Chris Duncan ().

  • The first thing that jumps out just looking at the representation of the waveforms is just how slammed the advertised version is. That has been mastered through a shit load of compression before uploading to soundcloud which is definitely going to affect the perceived sound on playback. It's may have had some fairly drastic eq applied too.

  • The first thing that jumps out just looking at the representation of the waveforms is just how slammed the advertised version is. That has been mastered through a shit load of compression before uploading to soundcloud which is definitely going to affect the perceived sound on playback. It's may have had some fairly drastic eq applied too.

    Yeah, that's the thing about "samples." They're sales tools to move the merchandise. Demos / samples (for all musical gear) are frequently tweaked to within an inch of their lives to make it sound good and sell the gear. Which is kinda dumb in my opinion because if you cheat on your demos, you pretty much guarantee dissatisfied customers. Don't know if that's the case with STL or not.


    So, it could be as simple as a manufacturer who puts out heavily massaged samples, and the profiles just don't sound like that. AdamMassacre1981, is this just with the STL profiles, or do you have the same problem with profiles from other companies?

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Edited once, last by Chris Duncan ().

  • Yeah, that's the thing about "samples." They're sales tools to move the merchandise. Demos / samples (for all musical gear) are frequently tweaked to within an inch of their lives to make it sound good and sell the gear. Which is kinda dumb in my opinion because if you cheat on your demos, you pretty much guarantee dissatisfied customers. Don't know if that's the case with STL or not.


    So, it could be as simple as a manufacturer who puts out heavily massaged samples, and the profiles just don't sound like that. AdamMassacre1981, is this just with the STL profiles, or do you have the same problem with profiles from other companies?

    I remember when i purchased Positive Grids bias amp a while back and i had the same struggles they just sounded like crap to me and yet they sounded great when advertised or demo'd online i was really starting to think it MUST be my interface (back when i had a focusrite solo 2nd gen) and that maybe the preamps are dogshit but when i purchased the 2i4 it was just the same.It breaks my ass because ive spent nearly 2k on this kemper and its just becoming not fun anymore...i have another more up to date DAW Reason 9.5 which has the ability to record guitars but im doubtful there will be a change.I really do appreciate the support and advice tho fellas \m/

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    This is another profile by Will Putney "ITCH BITCH" profile recorded as stock profile nothing has been altered and here is the demo of the same profile "apparently" un processed...
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    clearly another HUGE difference hes even using an ESP Eclipse as am i...There is NO anything when i play it yet he has a tonne of bite and attack with plenty of clarity when mine is underwater muddy shite.

  • Can we try a public profile from Rig Manager? So we can record it too and compare it with yours.


    Mago 6505+ Green2 for example.

    The best solution. You also have to remember that a lot of metal tones outside of a mix will sound fizzy. As soon as you have it double tracked and cymbals/hats are there, it might sound dull without the fizz.


    I use a darker tone live than when recording to achieve the same result.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • Can we try a public profile from Rig Manager? So we can record it too and compare it with yours.


    Mago 6505+ Green2 for example.


    Can we try a public profile from Rig Manager? So we can record it too and compare it with yours.


    Mago 6505+ Green2 for example.

    Balls to Rig manager i always have such an arse ache with that so i avoid it lol i will try use dropbox or i could email you the profile.

  • The best solution. You also have to remember that a lot of metal tones outside of a mix will sound fizzy. As soon as you have it double tracked and cymbals/hats are there, it might sound dull without the fizz.


    I use a darker tone live than when recording to achieve the same result.

    always doubIe track even sometimes quad track when doing metal and i do the pan left right and EQ the harsh frequencies maybe its just a lot of metal profiles dont work for me and im being lazy looking for a quick ready to use profile.Most of the time i just dont have the time to sit down for hours a day fine tweeking tones/profiles i wish i could but sadly life/job etc.Its like if not right off the bat im knocked off my feet by a profile without much or if any work needed im quickly skipping to the next profile...i know this is wrong but again i have very little spare time sadly to sit for a few days and tweek stuff at least at this point in my life.