A Kemper VST from Overloud ?

  • I just read the Slate thread on the gear page. You can’t load your own profiles, all profiles have to be created by the Overloud engineers. However, Slate states that there could be a submission service at some point in the future, meaning you can send profiles to Overloud for conversion. Whether that will be a free service is anyone’s guess, but I doubt it, considering the plugin only comes with 20 Rigs and there are expansion packs already planned.

    So their "internal process"" is potentially a hardware Kemper > profile a setup > run a converter > profit.

  • what about 7 million (+/-1) profiles which are already out there?

    Just to be transparent. I don't like what they are doing. This can potentially cost Kemper sales. I hope they fail/get stopped.

    I don't think so. Or should I say hope so. Those that prefer ampsims or just don't want to spend, or can't afford a kemper, will spend money on this one and those that can afford and want a kemper will invest the money on a kemper.

  • Actually, i don't thing there are any patent break. The kemper patent refers to the ability to model a rig by sending some sound patterns to identify the equ and gain stage (non linear function) of a rig chain.


    By providing only a player, this ability is hidden. Only overloud has the ability to generate profiles.


    I don't know if there is a patent on the DSP algorithm (the player function) itself. If yes, there is no proof that the algo used by overloud is the same.

    Looking forward to know the CK reaction on this


  • Discussed here:

    Kemper VST (sort of)


    and here:

    Kemper VST (sort of)


    :P:)

  • This is freaky, how could they reverse eng. the firmware and emulate the DSP of the profiler ? You need both the software and hardware to emulate a KPA ??


    Redesigning the profiling looks a lot simpler , but how could it handle KIPR files ? I'm really puzzled , maybe this is just a good bluff ?


    If there is no Kemper licensing in this story , that looks like urgent time for Kemper team to make their own VST available ASAP.

  • Upon further review of the Overloud TH-U overview video, I am going to guess that this has absolutely nothing to do with using Kemper technology nor Kemper .kipr files. Instead, this looks to be a rather silly and juvenile marketing ploy by Overloud to confuse customers by using the terminology "rigs" and "profiles" -- terms I presume Kemper GmbH never trademarked.


    As far as the technology...it most likely is similar to Bias Amp's EQ Matching system.




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  • Note how good the tone is at 1.15 when they are demonstrating the sampling section.


    Then listen to the regular THU engine for whatever 15 amps they are offering at 2 minutes.


    There's a vast difference. The sampling section has some really good tones demoed.


    Also listen to the little "alien sounds" section they do in between. It doesn't sound anything like the Kemper.


    Yet they have indicated that they will not release that section of the programme to the public.


    Why? Quite possibly an infringement of the patent for the profiling process itself.


    Is it exactly the same algorithm that the Kemper Amp uses? Who knows? But the process is patented, so it can't be offered by Overloud to the public.


    So they circumvent the legal hazard by saying they'll offer a conversion service. That's much like any commercial profiler saying they'll create Kemper Profiles.


    Those clips at the 1.15 mark sound pretty convincing as far as guitar tones. I can see a lot of guys who can't afford a Profiler downloading a trial version, if nothing else.


    Alternatively, maybe like Tritium said, the Overloud profiling process is bogus and they don't want people to find out.

  • Maybe I missed it further up, but Steven Slate says here that yes, it is for Kemper profiles - you just have to send them to Overloud first to be converted into their "Rig Player" format.


    https://www.gearslutz.com/boar…es-box-amp-much-more.html

    Actually, what he says is that there could be a service in the future, where you can send your kipr files to Overloud for conversion. I wouldn’t hold my breath, as it ships with only 20 “Rigs” and expansion packs (price?) are already confirmed.

  • Looking at the latest video in that thread (comparison between real amp and a "rig capture"), I'm thinking that maybe they're not reading the kipr files themselves, but rather use their own "profiling" process to capture the setup - completely analogous to what the kemper does, though time will tell if their method is as good as Kemper's.


    As such, I imagine that they will simply load profiles into their own kemper, and do a "TH-U profile" of the Kemper profile.

  • If they were re-profiling from a .kipr, why would their format use the exact same amp parameters that a Kemper has?

    It sure looks to me like they're able to pull out the relevant amp data from a KPA profile and play it with their algorithm.

  • Looking at the latest video in that thread (comparison between real amp and a "rig capture"), I'm thinking that maybe they're not reading the kipr files themselves, but rather use their own "profiling" process to capture the setup - completely analogous to what the kemper does, though time will tell if their method is as good as Kemper's.


    As such, I imagine that they will simply load profiles into their own kemper, and do a "TH-U profile" of the Kemper profile.

    Hello Michael,


    I agree, and that is what I have been thinking as well. If this is true, it is a complete joke. They are simply connecting their own Kemper up to a mic'd cabinet, and doing their own version of Positive Grid's Bias Amp "Matching". If this is in fact the case, then this is rather silly and somewhat pathetic on the part of Slate...especially given the misleading and IMHO deceitful marketing by Slate, as well as his specific comments on the GearSlutz forum.


    If they were re-profiling from a .kipr, why would their format use the exact same amp parameters that a Kemper has?

    It sure looks to me like they're able to pull out the relevant amp data from a KPA profile and play it with their algorithm.


    Hello Lokasenna,


    I suspect (suspect, mind you) that Slate is simply mimicking the functionality by using Kemper-specific terms on the controls/parameters...but these parameters are actually being adjusted within their own TH-U modeling engine. In either case, you have some rather shady, unprofessional and underhanded marketing tactics.

  • Just to note that although Steven Slate has been most vocal about TH-U and the Rig Player, the plugin isn’t actually made by Slate Digital, but Overloud. Slate has simply licensed it, so he can put a cut-down version in with the Everything Bundle to replace Scuffham Amps’ S-Gear, whose license has run its course.

  • Just to note that although Steven Slate has been most vocal about TH-U and the Rig Player, the plugin isn’t actually made by Slate Digital, but Overloud. Slate has simply licensed it, so he can put a cut-down version in with the Everything Bundle to replace Scuffham Amps’ S-Gear, whose license has run its course.

    In addition, he hasn't explicitly mentioned the profiler anywhere.


    I'm torn regarding the ethics of this. People have profiled plugins and competing digital products for a long time (and, indeed, kemper has mentioned how to do so in the manual). I suspect the part of me that dislikes the idea is tied to the fact that I have a KPA myself :-)