A Kemper VST from Overloud ?

  • Hello :)


    Uhm -- for me, VSTs can include tweaking the amps quite well, but of course it depends on what we mean by that. Surely if external hardware is required for a particular barometer of "tweaking well", yea, VST will be subpar, considering what VSTs are. If however the standard would be tweaking that is more faithful to the amps, for example, that may be another story, depending on the VST -- but of course it's not like this has to do with something in particular about "being a VST" or "being hardware", considering what modelling units aim to do.


    For me, the EQ controls on kemper don't get used much. Yes, they are easily accesible in a hardware format, but tonally tend not to do what I'm after. Usually it's a studio EQ that I'll use. That's convenient in kemper for sure, relatively speaking to some other solutions; but depending on the task at hand, for me, EQ corrections in daw can also be more convenient in other cases, some times going full-on VST anyway.


    But in any case, I get what the main point is in terms of hardware vs software, even considering VSTs surely need some hardware to run (things being more about "some types of hardware vs other types of hardware" if I try to be as exact as I can).


    If I was able to get the latency I wanted out of VST easily enough, and there was a portable unit running VSTs and offering few assignable controls, I'd probably use VSTs for way more than I do now. Usually hardware such as kemper offers a good mix of portability and other qualities I wont get with VST + PC. Other times, even kemper is too much to carry, and using VSTs is a god sent.


    For tracking guitars ideally I much prefer hardware, kemper included, certainly, whenever possible. But if kemper was offered as a VST I know I'd certainly use it for quite a bit too, including for re-amping purposes, which would just be much faster that way. But what "hardware" unit offers would still be hard to let go.

  • From what I know of the tech used in the profiler, the code base wouldn't translate nearly as well or as efficiently into the software vst realm as it does on the hardware unit due to the nature of the specialised DSP used. The code is low level enough to exploit hardware features of the DSP that would cost many times the power in software to emulate on a general purpose cpu. The Motorola 56K is a specialised DSP specifically designed for audio processing so unless they can get the software version of the profiler's OS to operate as well as it does on the 56K then I don't see it happening.

  • From what I know of the tech used in the profiler, the code base wouldn't translate nearly as well or as efficiently into the software vst realm as it does on the hardware unit due to the nature of the specialised DSP used. The code is low level enough to exploit hardware features of the DSP that would cost many times the power in software to emulate on a general purpose cpu.

    Helix Native sounds exactly like the hardware, and doesn't use that much CPU either.

  • Yup, "the overwhelming majority", Brother AJ.


    If I were Kemper it'd be the last thing I'd risk, and only then if the company were in dire straits and all other options to reinvigorate hardware sales had been explored and exhausted. IOW... never! :evil:

    Doesn't look like Helix Native has hurt Line 6's hardware sales.

  • Has Line 6 said as much or is this just an impression, mate?


    That's besides my point anyway, which was all about protecting Kemper's IP, as in the algorithms used to construct and play back Profiles. Putting them out there for every man and his dog to study and reverse-engineer would open the door to others' altering the M.O. / code just enough to enable them to patent so-called "new" products.


    So really, I just wanna see Kemper benefit to the fullest extent possible from its innovative approach; that way there'll be more capital available for future and ongoing development, and ultimately we Kemperites will win in the end.

  • I suppose that could be said if it was analog hardware, but this is a completely digital machine and is more than likely of being made into a VST... There is nothing happening outside the digital realm. If someone found out what the magic formulas being used were. You could then potentially map all those controllers to a DAW controller.


    I for one am glad that there's no VST. It would have been pirated like crazy, and would reduce the value of the hardware machine.

  • They released a VST version of the Pod XT back in 2006. Surely they would not have released Native Helix if it hurt hardware sales.

    A fair assumption; thanks mate.


    However, throughout its history L6 has employed traditional modelling that's in-principle not different from all its competitors (except Kemper, of course).


    IOW, there's nothing to risk in terms of IP's being stolen; "everyone else" employs/ed the same strategy of component modelling. Essentially all that differs between the various companies' products is the data representing the individual amp components and to a lesser extent, I'm guessing, the manner in which they're stitched together.


    Kemper's approach, when compared to "the rest", is a different ballgame altogether, and therein lies the IP value. No matter how you spin it, Kemper would have a helluva-lot more to lose than any of the other players if its code and / or detailed M.O. were to be stolen.


    We can agree to disagree of course; that's just my POV from where I'm sittin' way Down Under. ;)

  • The DSP power of modern CPUs would allow a PC to do the work of any modeller without raising a sweat. The critical question is more like: What is the best way to turn a profit from your target market. If Line 6 thinks Native is helping their bottom line then it is a good idea - end of story for Line 6. Fractal and Kemper havent' gone that way as yet with their guitar modellers BUT remember, the Virus had a VST version. It is not out of the question.

  • For me, the EQ controls on kemper don't get used much. Yes, they are easily accesible in a hardware format, but tonally tend not to do what I'm after. Usually it's a studio EQ that I'll use. That's convenient in kemper for sure, relatively speaking to some other solutions; but depending on the task at hand, for me, EQ corrections in daw can also be more convenient in other cases, some times going full-on VST anyway.

    Ahhh. I see. Yes, a multi-band, fully parametric eq is certainly superior in every possible way over a simple 4 band graphic eq (which is essentially what the Kemper front eq is) ..... except for one.


    Guitar players have decades of experience using a simple 4 knob front eq on an amp. Most tube amp players would really be confused with a 6 to 10 band fully parametric eq interface. Sound re-enforcement professionals and recording pros would have no problem. This is the bread and butter of mixing IMO.


    Again, IMO, the beauty of the KPA is that it is easy to use. Personally, I find it to be more of an advantage to a live player than someone that only records. As you point out, there are more and more powerful and convincing VST plug ins every year... and processing power on the PC just keeps getting better and better.


    The other question I would wonder about is that most people that make VST's make more than just one kind of thing. Kemper is all about making a great guitar rig. They aren't trying to make a great eq, or a great vocal reverb impulse response engine, or a great multi-band compressor, etc, etc. To me, it just seems unlikely that a VST maker could get something to the same quality of the KPA.


    .... of course, I could always be wrong :)

  • i really think there is a converter between kemper rigs To overloud th-u:

    Check this : choptones now provides rigs pack for overloud.

    Check the kemper profiles site : https://www.choptones.com/kemp….name&order=ASC&limit=100


    And the overloud version : https://overloud.com/products/choptones-fried-be50d


    240 studio profiles in both packs with the same cabs, guitars and boost pedals (And the same amp settings for every profile).... strange?


    Maybe ChopTones could explain this?

  • I belive that :

    1)they may have some Profile Development Kit app for Rig creators with some kind of agreement

    2) or they profile the Profiler with their own similiar algorithm


    I would like to hear KPA vs THU vs AMP reamp with the same rig.


    THU in the video sounds a bit darker then the real AMP.

  • Helix Native sounds exactly like the hardware, and doesn't use that much CPU either.

    I have a HX Stomp and Helix Native, and IME Native sounds significantly better (smoother and warmer in the highs) than the Stomp does. This is in direct comparisons with the same presets on each, and even using different interfaces with Native (M-Audio FireWire 410, Behringer UMC22, and even the HX Stomp itself as the interface). It shouldn't be possible, but it is.


    This total lack of harshness in the highs is why I like the Kemper so much, and to hear that from Line 6 algorithms is very interesting.