Rig Manager 3.0 Editor

  • Well, none of the other players (Fractal, Line6) have ever announced an editor, or charged for it. It was evident 7-8 years ago to have something to easily manage presets and "performances" or edit effects parameters without scrolling and page shifting. Although all of them provided the possibility to do that from the unit itself.

    It's a shrinking market, kemper needs to step up and widen it's possible consumer market by releasing an editor.

    The stage is 5-6 years late, but the company is catching up, but I still believe releasing the stage without the editor was a misfire.

    Kemper cone? Couldn't care less. Way too much resources wasted into a product, for a very narrow possible market and profit.

  • Well, none of the other players (Fractal, Line6) have ever announced an editor, or charged for it. It was evident 7-8 years ago to have something to easily manage presets and "performances" or edit effects parameters without scrolling and page shifting. Although all of them provided the possibility to do that from the unit itself.

    It's a shrinking market, kemper needs to step up and widen it's possible consumer market by releasing an editor.

    The stage is 5-6 years late, but the company is catching up, but I still believe releasing the stage without the editor was a misfire.

    Kemper cone? Couldn't care less. Way too much resources wasted into a product, for a very narrow possible market and profit.


    I'll be getting a Kabinet or two. I daresay a lot of others will too.

  • I'll be getting a Kabinet or two. I daresay a lot of others will too.

    Sure, it will sell some, but not in thousands like the stage/toaster/rack. The question is, if you want to allocate resources and sell a couple of hundred or allocate resources on an editor and sell another couple of thousands. In my book the second is a no brainer.

  • Well, none of the other players (Fractal, Line6) have ever announced an editor, or charged for it. It was evident 7-8 years ago to have something to easily manage presets and "performances" or edit effects parameters without scrolling and page shifting. Although all of them provided the possibility to do that from the unit itself.

    It's a shrinking market, kemper needs to step up and widen it's possible consumer market by releasing an editor.

    The stage is 5-6 years late, but the company is catching up, but I still believe releasing the stage without the editor was a misfire.

    Kemper cone? Couldn't care less. Way too much resources wasted into a product, for a very narrow possible market and profit.

    Hello aftec1570,


    The Axe-FX and the Helix were designed and supplied, from the very beginning, with a computer-based Editor as part of the product's ecosystem.


    By contrast, one of the main features highlighted by the KPA, was its intuitive amp-like interface...with deeper editing parameters locally accessible through the amp-like physical knobs and tactile buttons. This was a source of pride for Kemper -- i.e., no complicated UI, nor any perceived need for a separate PC-based editor. It is difficult to shift attitudes and beliefs on points of pride, and in particular something that strikes at the foundational core of the Kemper "experience", at least as it was originally conceived and marketed.


    However, with that said, there is no question (at least in my mind, and in my opinion) that there has been a slow, evolutionary change in Kemper's attitude, in regards to an Editor. I believe this is due in part to the following factors:


    • Kemper GmbH's reaction and response to continued customer demands
    • The adoption and employment of the KPA system within both professional and home studio production/recording/engineering environments
    • The ongoing life-cycle feature upgrades, and in particular the introduction of advanced Delay and Reverb algorithms, as well as increased flexibility of routing/signal chain FX assignments/slots -- these enhanced features, functions and capabilities bring along increasing parameter complexity, making the need for a dedicated PC-based Editor all the more necessary and desirable.
  • Well, none of the other players (Fractal, Line6) have ever announced an editor, or charged for it. It was evident 7-8 years ago to have something to easily manage presets and "performances" or edit effects parameters without scrolling and page shifting. Although all of them provided the possibility to do that from the unit itself.

    It's a shrinking market, kemper needs to step up and widen it's possible consumer market by releasing an editor.

    The stage is 5-6 years late, but the company is catching up, but I still believe releasing the stage without the editor was a misfire.

    Kemper cone? Couldn't care less. Way too much resources wasted into a product, for a very narrow possible market and profit.

    I have bought two Kemper Stage units knowing there was no editor. These have replaced my two Fractal Axe8’s which did have an editor but not at the initial launch. I also owned the Axefx 2 XL and a regular AxeFX 2 before that.

    I have not owned any other Kemper stuff before the Stage. For me and many others, they were the unit that I have been waiting for Kemper to release.
    I think you are over doing the importance of the editor. So many Kemper units out there and not one of them was sold while an editor was available.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think it will be a great addition but, in the grand scheme of things, this is a actually quite a simple unit to program due to the user interface. Hence the massive amount of Kemper units already out there.
    So many posts in this thread complaining but it’s mainly the same handful of people. Everyone else is just getting on with making music and playing.
    So, lack of editor was not what kept me from buying Kemper. I was only ever waiting for a floor board like the Stage to be released. The editor never came into the equation.
    I know people who have also dumped their Fractal gear to get the Stage too.

    Yes, the editor will be great but it’s not a deal breaker.

  • Sure, it will sell some, but not in thousands like the stage/toaster/rack. The question is, if you want to allocate resources and sell a couple of hundred or allocate resources on an editor and sell another couple of thousands. In my book the second is a no brainer.


    Nah, I'm guessing at least 1,000-2,000 units at about $500-600 a pop. That's revenue of at least about half a million for a small company like Kemper, which to me would sound like a big win.


    Note that those figures are extremely conservative. If there is a powered Kabinet, it will be more expensive and I'm guessing based on these forums and others and taking note of how we all always have this craving for new stuff, it will sell a lot more units.


    Heck, I'm hoping its cheap enough for me to buy two.

  • The Axe-FX and the Helix were designed and supplied, from the very beginning, with a computer-based Editor as part of the product's ecosystem.

    Hi Tritium!


    I was very early in the Axe-Fx game, around 2006-2007, cannot remember exactly when, but there was no official editor at the very beginning. There was something like a ToastMe for the very early stages as a freeware tool. Later on the Editor got a lot of focus and it is quite good. Still I had no issue working with the Axe internal edit layout, the same with the Kemper. I'm not raging about the editor, (although managing performances in the current rig manager is pretty bad IMHO), I'm ok, dialing the toaster, but I can feel the pain of the stage users. It's really counter intuitive to put a floor unit on a keyboard stand or on a table.

  • I have bought two Kemper Stage units knowing there was no editor. These have replaced my two Fractal Axe8’s which did have an editor but not at the initial launch. I also owned the Axefx 2 XL and a regular AxeFX 2 before that.

    I have not owned any other Kemper stuff before the Stage. For me and many others, they were the unit that I have been waiting for Kemper to release.
    I think you are over doing the importance of the editor. So many Kemper units out there and not one of them was sold while an editor was available.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think it will be a great addition but, in the grand scheme of things, this is a actually quite a simple unit to program due to the user interface. Hence the massive amount of Kemper units already out there.
    So many posts in this thread complaining but it’s mainly the same handful of people. Everyone else is just getting on with making music and playing.
    So, lack of editor was not what kept me from buying Kemper. I was only ever waiting for a floor board like the Stage to be released. The editor never came into the equation.
    I know people who have also dumped their Fractal gear to get the Stage too.

    Yes, the editor will be great but it’s not a deal breaker.

    Hi Vin! Always nice to see old HRI guys!

    I already wrote, I'm not screaming for an Editor, I was just contemplating if allocating resources had the right balance from a business perspective.

  • Nah, I'm guessing at least 1,000-2,000 units at about $500-600 a pop. That's revenue of at least about half a million for a small company like Kemper, which to me would sound like a big win.


    Note that those figures are extremely conservative. If there is a powered Kabinet, it will be more expensive and I'm guessing based on these forums and others and taking note of how we all always have this craving for new stuff, it will sell a lot more units.


    Heck, I'm hoping its cheap enough for me to buy two.

    I hope all the best for the Kemper guys, they delivered a great product standing strong after so many years. I don't know any high end digital gear without major revision updates in such a time period. I hope the Kemper Kone will be in the price range you desire.


    OFF:

    I sold my AxeFx after the shitstorm of the Axe II release and will never buy anything from them, ever again, because I don't want to support a company, who are purposefully screwing over it's customers. (Everybody, please don't hijack this thread to do a Fractal bashing contest. That is just my personal view what went down.)

  • I think you are over doing the importance of the editor. So many Kemper units out there and not one of them was sold while an editor was available.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think it will be a great addition but, in the grand scheme of things, this is a actually quite a simple unit to program due to the user interface. Hence the massive amount of Kemper units already out there.

    Hi Vinny, I agree to all but one thing - I think the "importance" of the Editor changes per the users needs. And thats why one is being made, because G-String see's this as an issue as well, and not just for having to bend down to adjust the Stage. For example, what you may not be thinking about is using the Kemper in a studio some distance "away" from your DAW/Mixer/ETC. Here is where the Editor will be very handy to have. :)

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... :D Kemper/Helix user

  • So many people stating that they don't need an editor

    Show me just one.Please be so kind..can you?


    Absolutely EVERYONE in this thread ,in this forum and in every single gearblog out there says that the editor is needed now and ofcourse will be a nice addition.

    Really..there is a fine line between serious discussion and just trolling but here we have an ocean dividing the (indeed) handful of people insisting on the same and again same arguments just for the sake of it.


    Again..everyone will admit that the editor will be a very nice thing.It is in the works!


    Saying that in the past before 2017 the Kemper stuff did not needed an editor is a valuable point.These things were easy to handle.But hey..no matter what we (actually the vast,silent majority of the huge Kemper Family) will say..it does not change a Jota in what will continue to happen here..right?

  • I think some folks get confused with whats needed/wanted in general versus whats needed to live & breath.

    Let's get this one out of the way 1st- I can breath without an Editor. So can you.


    That doesn't however remove the fact that it will be a great tool to have for most of us.


    But you're right. It's not needed for inhalation or exhalation from the lungs.


    As always, YMMV. Now breath.... ;)  :D

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... :D Kemper/Helix user

  • we are running test. i cannot predict the future, so i cannot know what we will find next. I thought the word "release candidate" give you a good indication of what state the product is in. when i'd read this, I'd think "that's good news". but if you want to know if it's 2 weeks or 4 weeks - the answer is simple: i could only guess and that does't help anybody.

    GString thanks for the update! I think if you guys did this sort of thing more often, we would have way less complaints. Because, and I am not saying this is the case at all, it kind of makes us feel that our questions fall on deaf ears. I don’t think that’s the case, I’m sure you are working full time on this thing, but once in a while, please just take 5 minutes of your time to give us a small update, even if it is to say it’s no ready yet. As long as it is good when it comes out, I’ll be happy.

  • *raises hand*


    I don’t think I’ve ever said I needed the editor. Nor do I believe it is necessary for Kemper to remain viable as a company.


    Do I want one? Sure.


    So some believe they need it? Sure. Usually to make life easier or more efficient. Not so the KPA is functional and certainly not needed in order to buy one.


    Not in this thread, anyway.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche