Rig Manager 3.0 Editor

  • What's so bad about rotary knobs? Tons of plugins use them...


    The "fine control" idea is nice. Usually it's found by holding a modifier key (control, I think).

    I understand and use them all the time. Every time I do I think "I wish this was a fader rather than trying to imitate a knob that's optimised for fingers". 😎

  • I understand and use them all the time. Every time I do I think "I wish this was a fader rather than trying to imitate a knob that's optimised for fingers". 😎

    It is true that knobs work fine with fingers. But that is not their only plus. Faders take a lot more space, whether it be in the digital world or in real world.


    I think it's a very good idea to have a visual representation of a knob for each parameter, with a written value below it that you can just write or even change with arrows, but give the option (maybe in visualization preferences) to have a fader appear over the knob whenever you click on it. Best of both worlds.

  • Omnisphere is on my "to buy" list ;)


    Sadly though, my cash level is quite low at the moment because of buying the Kemper. But I hope I'll be able to get it within the next months.


    It really sounds great.

    - it is. One of those purchases that genuinely keeps giving (not unlike a KPA) but the recent hardware integration is an absolute blast - works really well. It's a lot cash for a virtual but its one hell of a virtual.

    And pertinently I am using my Virus Indigo II as a controller for it.

  • What's so bad about rotary knobs? Tons of plugins use them...


    The "fine control" idea is nice. Usually it's found by holding a modifier key (control, I think).

    +1


    I'd hate it if there were sliders instead of knobs. I like controls to look like the real thing, so my brain doesn't have to do unnecessary visual translations or learn and get used to over time what each control is. I've already done that on the physical kemper.:)


    But I'd absolutely hate the idea of the action being circular like a knob. That should be complete banned in all software for use with a mouse (particularly bad with volume controls) :cursing:. I think these days most companies realize that this is bad and unwanted.:)

    Sterling Musicman JP150, Fender USA Strat
    Kemper Powerhead & Remote > ElectroVoice ZLX12-P | Palmer 1x12 Cab(G12M) | Sennheiser HD558
    Audient iD14 > Reaper

  • I don't see a problem either with having circular knob controls.

    Having the option to set a value with the keyboard might be useful though (maybe by double clicking on the number below the knob icon.


    Would be great also to have the input source editable in the editor (to switch input when reamping).

  • Just turn the knob on the profiler as it is reflected in the editor. As with mixing on a computer, the more you worry about values and virtual parameters, the less you use your ears.


    I can see the editor being very useful for copy and paste while setting up rigs for live. Also good for those with with visual issues, but the interface on the Kemper is still very well thought out. In fact, if you could only edit on a screen, people would be buying a physical interface to control it:-)

  • karlic couldn’t agree more :)


    I hate tweaking on a software editor. I tried Toast Me and, while it is a brilliant piece of work by Damien, it is just so much easir to turn the knobs on the KpA itself.


    However, I do agree with the desire to have an editor in the sense of ability to cut and paste, view things easily and manage Rigs, presets, performances etc.

  • Ok, so here's the breakdown of pros and cons of rotary vs slider as I see it.


    Rotary

    Positives :

    • Skeuomorphism results in a 1:1 relationship between the on screen control and the physical one.
    • They take up less space overall but at the same time give breathing room to a UI through empty space.
    • Generally prettier and easier to build into a UI that places emphasis on key values via size and spacing without looking odd.
    • Can offer multiple interaction models that need not correspond to the shape of the UI without ever feeling like there's a disconnect.

    Negatives:

    • When used with a "rotary" interaction model where you have to move the mouse in a circle around the dial it's very uncomfortable and imprecise for most users.
    • The indication of current value is often much smaller/less clear.

    Slider


    Positives:

    • Very clear indication of the current value.
    • Single click to set value with without requiring a mouse drag.
    • Linear mouse movement which is much easier for most people, especially if they're setting a series of sliders, where you end up with overall less mouse travel.
    • Information density in a UI can be quite high due to how thin sliders are.


    Negatives:

    • Visually breaks the connection between the UI and the physical device.
    • Ugly and utilitarian, without care can easily make something look more like an overwhelming spreadsheet from the 90's rather than beautiful or clear especially if there are many parameters.

    There are applications out there that actually offer both. Either within the same UI or simply as different ways to represent and manipulate the same data, usually with the sliders as the less pretty but automatically created more dense UI to allow quick precision control for automation tasks.


    I honestly don't think it's such a huge issue either way.

    The most important part for me is that the actual drag to manipulate the rotary is not a rotary drag action simply because what inherently happens with that is the precision at the start of the drag is horrendous with the mouse being very close to the center of the circle so it flips around and you lose your place on what the value was originally, all the benefit of smaller movement, and if you need to manipulate more than one element in sequence it becomes a very uncomfortable set of moves with the mouse.


    I'd also like to request the ability to select multiple controls and drag to adjust them relative to each other as a whole or single click to set them all to the same value.

  • Most VST plugins have the skeumorphic display to mimic a compressor or synth control panel or whatever. However, there is always a button on the top bar that switches the display from the GUI to a simple list of parameters with horizontal sliders beside them. A switch like that gives both options.

  • Usually when the GUI has 'knobs' the user is able to select whether the mouse operates in a linear or circular fashion, like plugins and stuff in pt or logic. Is that not going to be the case with the Kemper editor? I would prefer the knob look since it will update on the device but I can't stand trying to do the circular thing with a mouse.

  • In pretty much every plugin or audio editor I can think of, the graphical knob is controlled by clicking and dragging up/down or left/right - you never have to physically move the mouse in a circle to get it to work. This doesn’t seem like an issue to me.


    Some plugins will even have a little pop-up window that shows the value of the parameter being changed, updating in real time. That’s helpful. A “fine” control is nice too.

  • Usually when the GUI has 'knobs' the user is able to select whether the mouse operates in a linear or circular fashion, like plugins and stuff in pt or logic. Is that not going to be the case with the Kemper editor? I would prefer the knob look since it will update on the device but I can't stand trying to do the circular thing with a mouse.

    nobody from Kemper ever said that (but I get the feeling that some here believe it). you move the knob as if it would be a slider. not in a circular fashion.

  • Circular knobs in a GUI haven't needed to be moved in a circular manner since the old days, in case you were referring to me as "some here". I've been using every kind of software since the beginning of software.


    I won't offer any more suggestions, I promise.

  • Per that’s a brilliant summary.

    I fully endorse the position adopted by the previous speaker.


    For me it seems to be a solution that corresponds very well to the idea (my impression) of "very few windows" GUI and the associated need to save space.

    Also because the question of the rotating mouse pointer is solved now.

    First of all I'm glad that there will be an editor soon and I hope that there will be more suggestions without someone retreating injured, because his suggestion doesn't get the big response or there is hardly any reaction from the mothership yet.

    It's a beta and the more ideas are published the greater the chance that some of them will be integrated into the final solution.