Rig Manager 3.0 Editor

  • Believe me my friend..if there is something you should be happy about then it is the fact that the EQ of the KPA does not "work exactly" like the ones of the profiled amps.It is a funny issue indeed and it would take pages to discuss this..plus a lots of Humor..

    Well, I can see how people may like an EQ section that behaves the way the one in kemper does. Keeps changes more consistent, allows more extreme possibilities. I can also see credible reasons why someone would want an EQ stage that works like his amp. I wouldn't think that's due to people's close mindedness only.


    When it comes to kemper "knob" eq, in my experience, something quite similar is achievable with studio eq. It sure most often works better for my use in terms of achievable tones, allowing for more precision. A negative for some would be that you loose the "instant" tweak-ability of the kemper's EQ section.


    That said, the editor can allow for some easier tweaking on that end.


    It's definitely more convenient for me to use a laptop at least a big chunk of the time when coming up with tones compared to having to reach out to kemper. When in that situation, chances are I'd opt for studio eq the vast majority of the time compared to EQ section of kemper, even in software.


    Also, if I have done some profiles with a set up dialed to some "sweet spot" for a particular use, guitar set-up, PU, ect, ect, I'd usually want to be precise with the EQ.


    More faithful-to-the-profiled-amp EQ section (however that is achieved; there's been some different suggestions) would allow more flexibility in terms of coming up with 'sweet spots' after profiling, not requiring quite that many profiles for me, as well. Considering eq sections of many amps can affect quite a lot, even using targeted studio eq may not achieve the above.


    On that general topic, CK had once been asked about being able to load some kind of "studio eq" in the EQ section of kemper. If I remember correct, he did mention (without specifying) changes coming there too. Who knows what that's about -- but personally, even if it's about a more "tweakable" EQ section of kemper which does allow for more studio-EQ like tweaks to be saved in the respective EQ section of kemper, it would be welcome.


    This would be relevant to the editor as well, for sure. I'd be able to tie possible usefulness of hardware UI (often praised for being "tube amp like", even though some don't want care for this kind of UI at all) closer to what I'd want to do in terms of tones achievable via the studio EQ.


    Ultimately, I'd prefer profiled amp-like eq sections in terms of how they work, at least largely, and what they do in the real amps; but it's not a case of either/or anyway.


    In most cases, an editor that gets updated consistently as kemper evolves in one way or another, is pretty hard to argue against for sure.


    PS: an interesting interview about EQ https://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-profiling-amp-2949-2949

  • This is what I really love about the KPA..it brings us guitar players to admit what close minded creatures we are..


    Synth,bass-players and drummers had to adjust much earlier during the last decades than us electric guitar players..thanks to the KPA we finally start to discuss interesting issues like "amp-in-the-room",FRFR,the role of different speakers,cab sizes and finally the "real role of the EQ" on vintage tube amps..all funny stuff but yes we finally did it.Congrats to ourselves!

    The discussion of differences in feel, mic'd vs in the room, and FRFR solutions far outdates the Kemper, and goes back to when modelling first came around. It may be the case that you personally haven't discussed these matters until buying a Kemper, as is the case for plenty of people here I'm sure.

    Believe me my friend..if there is something you should be happy about then it is the fact that the EQ of the KPA does not "work exactly" like the ones of the profiled amps.

    Well, that would be your opinion, but it sort of flies in the face of your earlier argument that the Kemper behaves like a tube amp for "tube guys". If the "tube guy" wants and expects the EQ to work like an amp (and I understand the actual limitations here, but we are referring to expectations), it wouldn't exactly be that way. I guess if your point was that he has to turn physical knobs, that's amp-like, then ok, but the results wouldn't be the same. Mind you, I don't dislike the front EQ, though I seldom use it.

    The point I agree is the "modeller"-thing..I also never saw the KPA as a modeller

    The KPA is the modeller which reminds all "usual tube guys" most of all modellers of an amp.

    ?

  • The discussion of differences in feel, mic'd vs in the room, and FRFR solutions far outdates the Kemper, and goes back to when modelling first came around. It may be the case that you personally haven't discussed these matters until buying a Kemper, as is the case for plenty of people here I'm sure.

    Well, that would be your opinion, but it sort of flies in the face of your earlier argument that the Kemper behaves like a tube amp for "tube guys". If the "tube guy" wants and expects the EQ to work like an amp (and I understand the actual limitations here, but we are referring to expectations), it wouldn't exactly be that way. I guess if your point was that he has to turn physical knobs, that's amp-like, then ok, but the results wouldn't be the same. Mind you, I don't dislike the front EQ, though I seldom use it.

    ?


    Don't be naughty, MementoMori. :D


    Just because the Kemper isn't 1:1 versus an amp in terms of the control layout doesn't mean there isn't fun to be had.


    For example, the Kemper is capable of dialling out undesirable characteristics in some amps. And I've found that if you actually dive into the amp and cab menus to tweak a rig (rather than using the front panel controls), you can get some amazing results.


    Approaching the Kemper as one would approach an amp may be desirable for some, but once a user is able to get their head around what options there are, it becomes far more novel to use the Kemper approach.


    I'm not saying tweak a distorted amp to be a clean amp or vice versa. But you can definitely make a dull clean amp shine and a muted distorted amp roar using the amp and cab and EQ sections.


    I don't use the front EQ too much either. My favourite example of Kemper use is to just use rig manager to find a profile then play the f*** out of it.

  • Just because the Kemper isn't 1:1 versus an amp in terms of the control layout doesn't mean there isn't fun to be had.

    When did I suggest otherwise? I was responding to Nikos' characterization of it, especially contrasted to his previous statements. Personally, I've grown up using digital tools that tube purists would thumb their nose at so I have no apprehension to embracing "non-tube" sources of tone.

    For example, the Kemper is capable of dialling out undesirable characteristics in some amps. And I've found that if you actually dive into the amp and cab menus to tweak a rig (rather than using the front panel controls), you can get some amazing results.

    Kemper provides lots of great tools and deep parameters to sculpt from, hence the usefulness of an editor to more easily find them at a moments notice from your desktop. Though IME it does more to dial out mic/cab undesirable characteristics than the amp portion.

  • I don't use the front EQ too much either. My favourite example of Kemper use is to just use rig manager to find a profile then play the f*** out of it.

    Mine too!


    That’s why I’m excited to see the the new OS6. Not for the “editor” options as such but hopefully much better management of rigs and performances.

  • Obviously I want it done right rather than fast and full of bugs but I really hope they can get this out soon. I have some time off from work in a month and it would really be nice to get some time with it. I've got some recording I want to do and having an easier way to dial in effects and order them would really be helpful for that.

    “I'm not an abstractionist. I'm not interested in the relationship of color or form or anything else. I'm interested only in expressing basic human emotions: tragedy, ecstasy, doom, and so on.”
    ― Mark Rothko

  • A feature request that might be useful to consider.... I mentioned this in another thread related to another matter....


    It’d be good if the new Rig Manager / Editor had the ability to batch edit. In other words select 10 of your profiles and *the one thing you edit* then changes on all of them.


    Very useful if you always want a particular boost in slot 2 or a common cab or to turn off the reverb on everything for performances, set the delay/reverb mix to 0% so the Ionosphhere works beautifully on certain presets or....... lots of uses.


    I know some people want the editor because they absolutely love to play around with tiny subtle settings for hours and I salute them. That is not me - for me, this concept is, and always was, to enable a lazy person to easily change things that are necessary in an easy way. Batch editing feeds into this thought process. I get that we are near the initial release so a feature request at this stage is not going to happen unless it’s there already but, if possible for the future, I think it would be good :)

  • Well, considering the fact that we can already batch edit metadata, I too hope it might be possible one day, Gary.


    The thing is, I suspect the editor will only be able to operate on the Rig loaded into the KPA's edit buffer. If it could alter parameters en-masse without any of the associated Rigs' being shunted to the KPA, well, that's obviously how they'd have to implement it. :/

  • Hi Nicky,


    I get that, for real time editing, the editor program will be sending data on the fly to the profiler so show every knob turned.


    However.......All of rigs currently stored on my PC contain all the info needed to make the profiler behave in a particular way..... the current Rig Manager squirts this data across and that config instantly loads. So, in theory, this could be done offline / En masses as you’re not asking it to change what is on the profiler ‘right now’ - you’re just asking that the little kipr files be edited on the PC. You could then transfer them to the profiler for live use.


    Probably a flaw in my logic but makes sense to me based on my incomplete understanding :)

  • No flaw IMHO, Gaz. I thought the same thing, but there's a tiny catch:


    The only reason I can think of for Kemper to programme "offline" functionality into the editor would be for the purpose we're discussing. I'm guessing that the team may not see or have even considered the utility of being able to edit Rigs without hearing what one's actually doing.

  • Bumping this up to see if there is a date range...

    Summer is all that has been promised and reiterated when OS6 shipped.


    So...I’m betting on somewhere between Friday, June 21 and Monday, September 23....


    ....in the northern hemisphere. ?

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • No flaw IMHO, Gaz. I thought the same thing, but there's a tiny catch:


    The only reason I can think of for Kemper to programme "offline" functionality into the editor would be for the purpose we're discussing. I'm guessing that the team may not see or have even considered the utility of being able to edit Rigs without hearing what one's actually doing.

    I hadn’t looked at it that way - your logic is, unfortunately, good :) I hope they’ve thought beyond the ‘now’ but we’ll have to see. For example, the natural verb is lovely compared to the old reverb and, for most of my ‘everyday playing’ profiles I’d just swap them all out in one go. And imagine if they come up with a killer stomp box that is a ‘must have’ in a particular slot...... They must know that this wonderful box of tricks encourages folks to crave and hoard profiles and I think the ability to take a bunch from you’ve bought from your favourite profile maker and ‘make them yours’ with your individual tweaks in one operation that takes seconds would be great :)


    Whatever they do I’m excited - sonically the Kemper was always killer. In the 6+ years I’ve had it, many of the little things that haven’t been up to scratch have been sorted and it continues in its journey to get even better :)

  • Agreed, Gaz.


    I thought of exactly the same shortcuts as you did - stomp replacement en-masse. Sticking a particular wah in slot 1 sprung immediately to mind.


    Another incredible benefit would be to be able to place our favourite cabs into Rigs en-masse. A certain one for cleans, another for crunch maybe and one for heavy, all in 3 fell swoops. Imagine that! 8o


    One can only hope. With any luck, Kemper will consider the benefits of allowing offline editing, especially for multiple Rigs at-once... :/