Rig Manager 3.0 Editor

  • ...promise it will be available in 6 months (!!) then say, “Sorry! It’s gonna be another 3 months”...

    This statement isn't accurate. All they've said is "later in the year" and "summer". If I'm mistaken, please link to where you got that information from.

  • I remember people laughed at me at the comments when I said I would pay for this update to come out faster...

    And here we are....

    By this point I have given up on the editor....

    It is being worked on as I type this. Patience "Grass Hoppa". ;)

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... :D Kemper/Helix user

  • it's doesn't strike many as the highest mountain to climb. When you also consider ToastME is a pretty serviceable as an editor, that was done part time by a guy who isn't a Kemper employee, I can understand what makes some people ask what's taking so long.

    I don't wish to minimize in any way all the hard work that Damian has put into ToastME. It's a very full featured offering that's a labor of love (and free beer). That said, as he himself acknowledges in the very first post of his thread, it's a panel written for Ctrlr, a pre-existing MIDI editor supporting an open interface that allows others to add a custom UI tailored to specific hardware. That's many miles away from writing actual MIDI software (a protocal that I can say from experience is a pita to work with).


    To equate that to Rig Manager, custom software written from the ground up that speaks natively to the KPA, is approaching apples to oranges territory. RM has to do all the things it already does, plus the new editing features. This will sound completely backwards and wrong to someone who doesn't write software, but it's actually harder to add a lot of new features to an existing code base, where it can come into conflict with the code that's already there, than it is to do something new, from scratch.


    Also, software development by nature is half art, half science, and half unexpected visits from an alternate reality. And if you think the math on that doesn't add up, you're absolutely right. My two favorite questions in this business are a) "How long will this new feature take?" - answer, "I've never done this before, hang on, let me grab my Ouija board..." and b) "How long will it take to fix this bug?" - answer, "I have no idea why it broke in the first place, let alone what it's going to take to fix it, so hang on, let me grab my Ouija board..." Which of course implies the third, unspoken question c) "How many unexpected things will you encounter as you write this new software that will end up causing delays ?" I'll leave the answer as an exercise for the reader.


    TL;DR - This stuff isn't nearly as easy as people seem to think it is.

    I just find it absurd that I have to turn that little knob 15 times to get to my tremolo effect instead of choosing it from a drop down menu on my computer.... (just as an example). So you can see the frustration when they throw a feature that should’ve been there from the start in your face, promise it will be available in 6 months (!!) then say, “Sorry! It’s gonna be another 3 months” (which I highly doubt)...

    When I bought my profiler, I did my research up front and knew that I'd have to turn a little knob lots of times. I also knew it didn't have an editor. Had that been a show stopper, I would have bought a Line 6 or Fractal product instead.


    The car I owned before this one didn't support CarPlay. I knew that when I bought the car, so I didn't complain to GM that I couldn't plug my phone into it to use as my stereo. In both cases, I got exactly what I paid for, and expected, so I was happy. For what it's worth, when a new model of my car came out, it did in fact support CarPlay. So, I sold my old car and bought a new one. Now I have CarPlay. Eventually, I'll have a Kemper editor as well. And I won't even have to trade in my toaster and buy a new model to get it. Frankly, I feel like I'm getting the better end of this deal.


    As for "promised in 6 months," no software developer who's been in the business for more than a week is dumb enough to ever use the word "promise" given all the unknowns in this profession. What they offered was an "estimate" of having it done by the end of summer. But the funny thing about the software business is that people somehow forget what that word actually means. When you give someone an estimate of "end of summer," it somehow gets translated into "commitment." If you look up "estimate" in your favorite dictionary the definition will be something like, "Beats me, but this is my best guess based on what I know at the moment."


    If you look for things to be unhappy about, you'll always be successful. And I respect that it's your choice to make.


    As for me, I've lived on the other side of the compiler long enough to know what it takes (and what these guys go through) to deliver quality software, and I also know a gift horse when it looks me in the mouth. Or however that goes. Personally, I'm excited for the new editor even though it's not a "must have" for me, and I'm delighted that I get all those hours of coding and late nights for free. If these guys ever visit Atlanta, the coffee is definitely on me (and they'll be needing it).

  • I agree, but we all think that the editor should have been there from day one! (Or at least year two or three) but we’re at year 7.


    Users neglect quality over usability all the time, and this product screams for an editor! (The floor model even more so, since no one likes bending over to edit presets).


    I just find it absurd that I have to turn that little knob 15 times to get to my tremolo effect instead of choosing it from a drop down menu on my computer.... (just as an example). So you can see the frustration when they throw a feature that should’ve been there from the start in your face, promise it will be available in 6 months (!!) then say, “Sorry! It’s gonna be another 3 months” (which I highly doubt)...


    I’m bettting Kemper and Company are thinking “We should’ve just dropped the software like we did the Stage. No pretense, no run up. NO WHINING!!”

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I’m bettting Kemper and Company are thinking “We should’ve just dropped the software like we did the Stage. No pretense, no run up. NO WHINING!!”

    I highly doubt they're as preoccupied or bothered with the "whining" as the people on this forum who thrive on petty squabbles and get reflexively defensive.


    The things that were teased at NAMM, after the previous year of having nothing new, was necessary. Thus far they've also promised by summer, which is still within that window. A handful of guys getting antsy and irritable really isn't reflective of the vast majority. There also seems to be more people complaining about the complainers than complainers themselves, honestly. If 1 out of every 10 people complain, then the other 9 talk about the complainer, makes it feel much more significant than it is.


    Besides, it's not like the editor thread wasn't continually the most active thread on the forum. Those who are less than happy would have just been posting there instead. Either way, I think by far most people are patient and understanding enough.

  • I highly doubt they're as preoccupied or bothered with the "whining" as the people on this forum who thrive on petty squabbles and get reflexively defensive.


    The things that were teased at NAMM, after the previous year of having nothing new, was necessary. Thus far they've also promised by summer, which is still within that window. A handful of guys getting antsy and irritable really isn't reflective of the vast majority. There also seems to be more people complaining about the complainers than complainers themselves, honestly. If 1 out of every 10 people complain, then the other 9 talk about the complainer, makes it feel much more significant than it is.


    Besides, it's not like the editor thread wasn't continually the most active thread on the forum. Those who are less than happy would have just been posting there instead. Either way, I think by far most people are patient and understanding enough.

    It’s called a joke.


    Unwind the spring. Jeez.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I highly doubt they're as preoccupied or bothered with the "whining" as the people on this forum who thrive on petty squabbles and get reflexively defensive.


    The things that were teased at NAMM, after the previous year of having nothing new, was necessary. Thus far they've also promised by summer, which is still within that window. A handful of guys getting antsy and irritable really isn't reflective of the vast majority. There also seems to be more people complaining about the complainers than complainers themselves, honestly. If 1 out of every 10 people complain, then the other 9 talk about the complainer, makes it feel much more significant than it is.


    Besides, it's not like the editor thread wasn't continually the most active thread on the forum. Those who are less than happy would have just been posting there instead. Either way, I think by far most people are patient and understanding enough.

    This forum is very helpful on the whole, but you have to remember that a vocal minority making complaints don't represent the whole. Most Kemper users probably get on with playing guitar and take the updates as a bonus.


    Does anyone have any idea how many Kempers have been sold?