Rig Manager 3.0 Editor

  • Also, I should say that we should go back to the topic. So editor? In the next 1hr 9 mins???

    On a serious note, personally, and this is just me, I'm not concerned with the release date. It's enough that the company confirmed an editor's in the works. I mean, initially, people simply wanted confirmation. Kemper finally obliged, and now some people are OCD'ing and gnashing teeth over the estimated release date. People can do what they want, but why the company would bother confirming any future updates if that's how people are going to respond is anyone's guess.


    I’m not gonna go home and fire up my monitoring setup, or remember to listen to an A/B test hours later where I don’t know the bias of the poster or the way it was really recorded or the possible agenda, so I don’t bother to listen to them.


    What I was originally saying was, most people listen through their iPhone speakers and then have 50 pages arguments about what they heard through those shitty speakers, and I can’t see the point of it.

    Just because you primarily browse using your phone or tablet doesn't mean most people do. Further, if you want to know how clips are recorded, just ask. I've offered numerous legitimate blind tests on this (and other) forum(s) where the methods are made explicitly clear and at least some participants are listening critically via monitors, and of those who are willing to at least make an effort to identify the correct unit, no one's scored higher than random guessing.

  • OneEng1, off topic, but that line of reasoning is pretty cherry picked for a number of reasons.

    Your summary failed to account for frequency of updates and number of updated features. Compared to some other competing devices (and it aint just 2...), the frequency of Kemper updates isn't blowing anyone away. In fact, it lags behind many others. We can of course argue the "quality" of those other updates, but it's beside the point here if I'm to strictly interpret your reasoning.

    It doesn't invalidate the fact that when new hardware comes out, old hardware loses value.


    Further, if there are more than 2 (Fractal Axe, Line 6 Helix) that play competitively, I would like to know what they are?

    Old versions of hardware still work, and the only "value" that matters is to that of the player. If you still use hardware that is no longer supported with firmware updates, it works no less for you than it did before. If we were to take the common sentiment expressed on the forum that people don't need new features because they bought the Kemper "as-is", I don't see why that's suddenly an exception.

    So... what you are saying is that it would be OK if Fractal was still selling their Axe from 8 years ago? I am not sure that any amount of firmware upgrades would put it on-par with the Kemper of today .... but then again, we will never know since they quit doing anything on that old Axe (of any significance) quite some time ago ... don't you think?



    The original Axe-Fx II is still being updated, actually. Despite the unit being discontinued last year, Fractal Audio released a new update for it on the 18th.

    Hmmm. From their website:

    Quote

    Zip Archive—Mar 28, 2019

    This firmware is a partial port of the new “Ares” modeling used in the Axe-Fx III. Not all aspects were able to be ported but the amps should sound very similar.

    So they added one new "model" that doesn't sound the same as it does in the new hardware?


    If that is the case for "update" then the KPA is updated every time someone makes a new profile!


    Sure you want to stick with this particular line of argument?

    Many Axe-Fx II users never buy a newer Axe-Fx II model because all Axe-Fx II models are compatible.

    No. They are not. Please read the note above again.

    Okay, though I'd argue the Axe-Fx II is far more versatile and costs less than a new Kemper, while the Axe-Fx III retails for a bit less than what I paid for my Axe-Fx II (new) and is an even more flexible and feature rich unit than the II. There's really no comparison between the feature set of the III vs. the Kemper. The III is on a whole different level, and is a bargain at the asking price, in my opinion.

    Having spent around 9 hours with all 3 (Kemper, Axe fx II and Axe fx III) doing A/B's all day long, all I can say is that the Kemper was able to obtain good tones faster and more accurately with a Fender HRD, Mesa Double rect, and JCM800. This was both with profiling, and just starting out with rig manager and some downloaded rigs as a starting point.


    Sure, the Axe III editor is damn beautiful. Certainly the most comprehensive editor I could ever envision. Still, at the end of the day, the Kemper was the tone matching champ hands down.


    I'll give the Axe III the nod for the most tweak-able guitar amp in history with no one else even running in the same galaxy in the market, but that didn't help it obtain the tones of the tube amps with ease. Sure, you will get there in time. You just need training and patience.


    Keep in mind, that all 3 devices had good sounds. The KPA did mid gain decisively better IMO. The Axe effects were just amazing though.


    FWIW, I think that you guys that are used to the Axe Fx III editor are going to be very disappointed with any editor Kemper comes out with. The Axe Fx III was architected with an editor on a PC in its DNA while Kemper was designed not to need one at all and be more "tube amp like" in its controls.

    A lot of people aren't going to use a third party editor because 1) it's third party and 2) it's MIDI only 3) not officially supported. An official editor will certainly add value to the unit and thus incentivize future purchases, in my opinion.

    A lot of people already use the third party editor. I certainly do. It is very likely that anyone who does lots of automation already has tons of MIDI experience and equipment. As always, it will of course be nice when the editor is integrated with rig manager and can work through a USB cable :)

  • It doesn't invalidate the fact that when new hardware comes out, old hardware loses value.

    It loses value, perhaps on the used market, but I fail to see how that is remotely important.

    Further, if there are more than 2 (Fractal Axe, Line 6 Helix) that play competitively, I would like to know what they are?

    People looking for all-in-one digital emulators. Atomic, Mooer, BOSS, Headrush, Positive Grid, Zoom, and many others. Just because Kemper, Helix, and Fractal lead in "perception" doesn't mean people don't do their homework and also invest in other devices.

    So... what you are saying is that it would be OK if Fractal was still selling their Axe from 8 years ago? I am not sure that any amount of firmware upgrades would put it on-par with the Kemper of today .... but then again, we will never know since they quit doing anything on that old Axe (of any significance) quite some time ago ... don't you think?

    I don't see how this is relevant or germane to my point. If you're happy with your Axe-FX Ultra, as some people are, then you're under no obligation to buy an Axe-II, Axe-III, or AX8. Mind you, Line 6 still sells POD's, so wouldn't be altogether unprecedented anyway.

    No. They are not. Please read the note above again.

    ColdFrixion was comparing the different versions of the Axe-II, not the Axe-III when he says models were compatible. The note you included from Fractal was in reference to the Axe-II update not sounding exactly like the Axe-III. His point was that is you bought an Axe-II, you didn't need to buy an Axe-II+ or Axe-IIXL+, as many didn't.

    A lot of people already use the third party editor. I certainly do. It is very likely that anyone who does lots of automation already has tons of MIDI experience and equipment. As always, it will of course be nice when the editor is integrated with rig manager and can work through a USB cable :)

    Most Kemper users wouldn't know about the editor because they're not members of the forum or another social medium like the Facebook group. Even plenty of those who've crossed paths with it haven't done so. Some express they're not interested in a 3rd party editor and want an official integrated editor.

    Point being, a 3rd party editor is not going to add value the way a native editor will that comes with the device and subsequent software. Not even close.

  • So they added one new "model" that doesn't sound the same as it does in the new hardware?

    "Ares" is not the name of an amp model. It's the name Fractal Audio designated for the current incarnation of their modeling algorithms. To put it in context, the release notes are saying that portions of those new algorithms ("Ares") were ported from the III to the II.

    No. They are not. Please read the note above again.

    The release notes are referencing portions of the Ares modeling (referenced in my reply above) that was ported from the Axe-Fx III to the Axe-Fx II. Here's a Cliff Notes version; the new firmware release for the Axe-Fx II is a partial port of the latest incarnation of Fractal Audio's "Ares" modeling algorithms (again, mentioned in my reply above) for the Axe-Fx III. Not all aspects of "Ares" were ported to the Axe-Fx II, but the portions that were ported to the Axe-Fx II will sound very similar to the full version of "Ares" in the Axe-Fx III. That said, the latest firmware release for the Axe-Fx II will sound identical on every Axe-Fx II model(Mark I, II, XL, XL+), however it will sound similar to the full version for the Axe-Fx III. Hope that helps.

    I'll give the Axe III the nod for the most tweak-able guitar amp in history with no one else even running in the same galaxy in the market, but that didn't help it obtain the tones of the tube amps with ease. Sure, you will get there in time. You just need training and patience.

    The Tone Match feature in the Axe-Fx II and III is able to replicate tones faster than I'm able to profile an amp in many cases. Like profiling, it's not always accurate or successful 100% of the time, however I've been able to match many of my favorite Kemper profiles quickly, simply and with excellent results just to see if it can be done.

    A lot of people already use the third party editor. I certainly do. It is very likely that anyone who does lots of automation already has tons of MIDI experience and equipment. As always, it will of course be nice when the editor is integrated with rig manager and can work through a USB cable

    A lot of people use and love ToastME(me included), however there are also a lot of people that don't and won't use it for the very reasons I stated. I use MIDI automation, but I also had to buy an extra set of MIDI cables in order to use ToastME. That's a turn-off for some people, not to mention ToastME isn't officially supported by Kemper, so there's an inherent risk to using it that turns some people off.


    If you want to continue this discussion, we need to take it to another thread. Create one and I'll be glad to continue discussing it there because this interaction may ultimately get deleted due to it being off-topic.

  • I can't remember the last time I accessed this site via anything but my phone.

    I know. Everyone uses their phone these days. I checked a government study and it showed that in the UK 78% of all internet access is now done via a smart phone.


    I just don’t find the debates based on the judgements that are made through such poor listening devices to be useful.

  • Am I the only person who will be refreshing this thread all day to see if there has been any progress?

    While I doubt they’d release RM 2.3.13 and then 3.0 the next day......I *did* bookmark the RM download page.


    I’m not waiting for you knuckleheads to tell me. 🙃

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche