NAMM 2019: Kemper Kabinet and Kemper Kone

  • I would like to compare this new celestion F12-X200 versus beyma 12ga50, it is the same concept I think, coaxial double cone.

    Hello voider777.


    The Beyma is not a coaxial speaker. It is a single driver with a whizzer cone, and these types of speakers cannot reproduce high frequency audio content with any sort of reasonable accuracy. This would include the upper harmonics/overtones from, for example, an acoustic guitar...to say nothing of the acoustic instruments typical in an orchestral track (including violins, piano, flute, piccolo, etc.). The Beyma 12GA50 has a pretty steep drop-off above 10 KHz, and is a completely different animal vs a true coaxial, such as the Celestion F12-X200. The Celestion F12-X200 has a true HF compression driver...and has a built-in crossover circuit. It can reach the upper range of harmonic content, all the way up to 20 Khz.


    Cheers,

    John

  • beyma had no treble and was very boomy

    both 10 and 12

    had them in the same cab as the f12 now

    Nice to see you have an informed opinion.


    Because I bought a 2nd hand beyma some months ago only to try a semi frfr way.

    I put it in an old floor monitor and it sounded not bad for itself, but nothing inspiring, when i compared it to a guitar cab I realized beyma was like a toy. And I want to know if my opinion upon kemper through frfr could change, I only tried this beyma and mackie thump 12-15(not stellar monitors). Maybe a good monitor like dxr100 or this new celestion or K cone is the solution...if not i will stay with my 2x12, but it is a pitty because the difference between some profiles are negligible, and for me my tube head sounds slightly better, so if i can't use more of the kemper's versatility i can't justify keeping kemper.


    The coaxial Celestion F12-X200 has a true HF compression driver.


    Didn't know that..thanks

    I thought it was a whizzer cone (didnt know the word but I knew the concept. "coaxial double cone" was my workaround). But if i usually filter at 7kHz..will I benefit from it?

  • Didn't know that..thanks

    I thought it was a whizzer cone (didnt know the word but I knew the concept. "coaxial double cone" was my workaround). But if i usually filter at 7kHz..will I benefit from it?


    Hello Voider777,


    If you have a high cut/low-pass filter set at 7 Khz, then certainly you are not going to be getting any noticeable audio content at higher frequencies, even if you are using the Kemper with Cabs enabled, and connected through a "FRFR" speaker system. However, for the Kemper Cab profiles to perform optimally, and reproduce the sound of the mic'd reference cabinet authentically, then the more linear (flat response) type of speaker system you have, the better...even if you are only trying to reproduce the frequency band (for example) between 90 Hz and 7 KHz.


    This is precisely why it will sound crappy when you try to send the KPA monitor out with Cabs enabled through a traditional guitar cabinet. When you do something like that, you are effectively sending the audio output signal through two EQ filters in series -- 1st, the KPA Cabinet profile is filtering the signal to recreate the reference (virtual) speaker. 2nd, the physical speaker in the traditional guitar cab is adding another stage of EQ filtering, through its natural frequency response characteristics. This is why the end result will sound dark and muddy, as if the speaker has been covered by a wet blanket.


    I realize you are probably already well aware of all this...and I only mention it to stress a point. Which is, ideally, an "FRFR" system is transparently reproducing the audio signal from the KPA monitor output, without imparting any undesirable "color", and certainly not acting as a secondary source of EQ filtering...which is what a traditional guitar speaker would be doing (with KPA Cabs enabled).


    So, to come full circle back to your original question, which is would you benefit from the new Kemper Kabinet? To answer that, requires asking back more questions:


    A) Do you foresee that you might ever take advantage of your KPA, with a full-range system such as the upcoming Kemper Kabinet, to play acoustic guitar?


    B) Do you foresee that you might take advantage of having the ability to playback full-range music (such as backing tracks) through your Kemper Kabinet, while you are playing guitar?


    C) Do you foresee that you would take advantage of the KPA's Kemper Kone physical speaker emulation, which the Kemper Kabinet has been specifically matched and tuned for? This promises to provide that true "amp-in-the-room" psycho-acoustic experience, by eliminating the influence of the microphone that is intrinsic to the process of profiling the amp/cabinet system.

  • Regarding pricing, I also think that it will be around € 500-700 for the passive and maybe another € 300 on top for the active cab. As mentioned earlier in this post, quality cabs start at € 400-500. It's just unrealistic that a german-built cab that has been developed during 2 years (hello r&d costs) will retail for less than € 300...


    digbob Thanks for sharing your first impressions of the new speaker. Looks promising! I currently use headphones and studio monitors and would like to know how the speaker sounds at reasonable volume. Is this like a stage solution only or is this also usable at home?

  • C) Do you foresee that you would take advantage of the KPA's Kemper Kone physical speaker emulation, which the Kemper Kabinet has been specifically matched and tuned for? This promises to provide that true "amp-in-the-room" psycho-acoustic experience, by eliminating the influence of the microphone that is intrinsic to the process of profiling the amp/cabinet system.

    Only this, of course the priority is having the best tone-feeling/versatility ratio, the thing is how well will it perform what it promises..I usually dont like frfr for playing in a room with a band, we expect this kemper kone to solve this and at the same time outperform a classic guitar cabinet. Time will tell..there is hope.

  • digbob Thanks for sharing your first impressions of the new speaker. Looks promising! I currently use headphones and studio monitors and would like to know how the speaker sounds at reasonable volume. Is this like a stage solution only or is this also usable at home?

    >The Speaker has 200 watts , so its fairly enough for stage and home i think

  • Christoph has been VERY careful with his words in every video I've seen. Not once has he referred to the new speaker driver as "FRFR" or "coaxial" or "twin driver" or "full-range" or anything like that. But he does say "broadband" a lot, which is typically a term used to refer to a single driver.


    If I were a betting man, I'd bet it's based on the Celestion K12H-200TC.

  • I can’t be over 400€

    Whatever the r&d the added value is in the Kemper, not in the cab. This is a 170€ speaker and wood. Once it is in the field everybody will know the measures. If the price is excessive, other companies will propose the cab, and anyone a minimum handy will be able to build it.

  • If I were CK, I would let Mojotone in North Carolina make the cabs and install the drivers. It's their niche, and there wouldn't be any import duties imposed.

    Mission Engineering also owns a cabinet maker based in St. Louis called Stagecraft. They build cabs for other amp companies like Mojo I think. Maybe CK can work something out with them to build the speakers for the US Market to make it cheaper than shipping from the EU.

  • I can’t be over 400€

    Whatever the r&d the added value is in the Kemper, not in the cab. This is a 170€ speaker and wood.

    Some people will pay premium money just because they CAN. A ton of guitarists have 40, or 50, or 80 guitars... just because they can. Not everyone is a DIY type like you and I.


    Also, we don't know how different this custom driver will be from the driver it is based upon, so availability is a question.


    The Celestion K12H-200TC is only $80 USD, while the F12-X200 is $150 USD. At dealer cost, the latter is basically 2x the price.