NAMM 2019: Kemper Kabinet and Kemper Kone

  • Is it possible to compare the Sound of the F12 to a DXR10 and post a description?


    I'll definetly buy a Kemper Kabinet just to compare the full-range-sound to my DXR10-sound, which I like very much. For me the DXR10-response is a Kind of reference.

  • Did they keep in mind us bassist as well?? I mean: is the 12" speaker capable to deliver and has the signal from the Kemper such speaker-imprint as well? Or is this guitar-dudes-only?

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    As I understand there is also going to be an active version later this year.


    Nice, there's an EVM12L model in there.




    Full range is one thing, but full range flat response is another. Or at least I think so.


    Because basically FRFR is a great concept that's difficult to implement. That may be one reason we have all these terms like "broadband speaker", which would imply that the speaker spans a huge range of frequencies. But it may not be flat in its response.


    In that regard, take note of what we have heard about DSP being used. The speaker may not be flat, but the Kemper will feed it a tailored signal to ensure that it is "flat response".


    Additionally, the design of the speaker seems intended to make it behave like a real guitar speaker, hence concepts like beaming and directionality have been unveiled.


    I think this will be a completely unique speaker that will have no use in most other applications than as a Kemper speaker.

  • Regarding FRFR it is a concept that makes sense when you want a device that plays anything that you feed in the most linear manner possible.


    But so many people here in the forum have spoken about a somewhat underwhelming feeling about this kind of solutions. Because we don't want a linear speaker. We want a guitar speaker. And a guitar speaker is not linear, ever.


    So, what we want is a guitar speaker (hence, not FRFR) but also the ability to sound like any other (guitar) speaker.


    And CK thinks, again, out of the box and offers what seems to be a very logical approach. In the same way that with the KPA what we wanted was the SOUND and not the "digital circuit modelation". KPA does not know how many resistors or capacitors has each amp. And the Kemper Kone doesn´t need to be linear to emulate other guitar speakers.

  • Regarding FRFR it is a concept that makes sense when you want a device that plays anything that you feed in the most linear manner possible.


    But so many people here in the forum have spoken about a somewhat underwhelming feeling about this kind of solutions. Because we don't want a linear speaker. We want a guitar speaker. And a guitar speaker is not linear, ever.

    I have a different opinion/understanding to this: "We want a guitar speaker. And a guitar speaker is not linear, ever"


    I think this misses the point of the need of an FRFR speaker completely. When you use a linear speaker it is not to flatten the response of a guitar speaker you want to reproduce (not sure if this what you meant t say or not). In contrast, if you have a guitar speaker A and capture its IR with a Microphone "M", you will end up with a sound sound "AM", the need of the linear speaker "L" is in order to then get a faithful reproduction of "AM" and not a colored sound "AML". In other words the linear speaker is used with the aim to un-affect the original signal.


    One problem with the Mic variable and one of the reasons why a speaker/cab reproduction never feels like the original speaker (apart from the color it introduces), would seems the introduction of more frequencies that were not present in the original signal coming form the guitar speaker. Hence the existence of PureCab and GRFR and other DSP tricks. CK is trying to address this with the speaker imprints.


    The other problem that CK is trying to address with the Kemper Kabinet is the dispersion of the signal and the beam effect. The Beam effect is what everyone mostly attributes to the Amp in the room effect whereas due the position on our ears in respect the signal beam, make us hear a different sound. Most FRFR speaker I believe have greater dispersion thus making us hear more frequencies than we really want.


    In conclusion. I do not think the "linearity" of a speaker is the problem at all, but instead other physical effects as per above.

  • We agree. I am not really technical or knowledgeable about this particular issue. What I meant by saying that a guitar speaker is not linear in my simplified, non technical way, is basically the same that you explained in your post.


    I mean, we all know that guitar speakers do not react in a "clinical" way. They have imperfections that made them BETTER for the use with a guitar amp. They colour the sound and are a big part in what we feel as "the amp in the room". Ant that is why I think that it is a very good idea to design a speaker with the same basic behavior of any 12 inch guitar speaker but trimmed so you know how to affect the sound from the source to replicate the specific nuances of each model.

  • We agree. I am not really technical or knowledgeable about this particular issue. What I meant by saying that a guitar speaker is not linear in my simplified, non technical way, is basically the same that you explained in your post.


    I mean, we all know that guitar speakers do not react in a "clinical" way. They have imperfections that made them BETTER for the use with a guitar amp. They colour the sound and are a big part in what we feel as "the amp in the room". Ant that is why I think that it is a very good idea to design a speaker with the same basic behavior of any 12 inch guitar speaker but trimmed so you know how to affect the sound from the source to replicate the specific nuances of each model.

    and as an ammendment:

    also the cab-size/-construction/-material has a great Impact to the Sound. That's why I'd prefer to use the Kemper-Kabinet instead of a standard- or custom-built cab. The Speaker imprints and the DSP-programming surely had been designed with the Prototype of a Kemper Kabinet.

  • Nice, there's an EVM12L model in there.

    I have two EVM-12S drivers in two Thiele cabs that I built based on a set of Electrovoice plans.The 12S speakers sounded almost identical to the 12L's in a Mesa Thiele cab when I compared them. I also built an EVM-15L in a 15 inch Thiele cab from the same plans.


    I pulled the 12S drivers from an open back Fender Silver Face cab that I originally bought to use with my '68 Bandmaster. The cab was in great condition. It looks like it was made in 1972. I got lucky with the Bandmaster. It was made in February of 1968. It is a factory AB763 (Black Face) made from parts meant for '67 Blackface amps.


    The cab was smaller than a Bandmaster 2 x 12, which originally came with either Jensen or Oxford drivers and was closed back. So I bought plans for a Bandmaster cab and built one out of pine to spec. I mounted a pair of Jensen C12N drivers in it.


    I was planning on building a pair of 1 x 12 cabs with Kemper drivers. Now, if the Kemper Kone Oxford voice nails that speaker, I will need to build a 2 x 12 cab with Kemper drivers as well.


    I will instantly try a Kemper speaker in one of my cabs and compare the sound when it becomes available as a part. If the Kemper Kone nails my home built Thiele's sound, I will go with the Kemper speakers and make a 2 x 12 + 1 x 15 Thiele cab with the 12S and 15L speakers.


    What is a 2 x 12 + 1 x 15 Thiele cab!?!?


    It is two vertically stacked Thiele cabs with a slanted front on the top and a 1 x 15 Thiele cab under the two 12 inch cabs. So from top to bottom it looks like this:


    12 inch Thiele cab slanted back by 16 to 24 degrees

    12 inch Thiele straight cab

    15 inch Thiele straight cab


    All 3 speakers are 8 ohms. So I will do some creative wiring. I hope to set up the cab so I can go 2 x 12 mono and 1 x 15 mono in stereo. That would get me a 4 ohm load on the 2 x 12 cab and 16 ohm load on the 1 x 15.


    I might also get another 8 ohm 15L so I can configure the cabs as a 2 x 12 + 2 x 15 standard cab. I will design two cab bodies, and use removable baffles so I can get the best of both worlds.

  • and as an ammendment:

    also the cab-size/-construction/-material has a great Impact to the Sound. That's why I'd prefer to use the Kemper-Kabinet instead of a standard- or custom-built cab. The Speaker imprints and the DSP-programming surely had been designed with the Prototype of a Kemper Kabinet.


    I am absolutely certain this is true. That is not to say that retrofitting a shipped-loose Kemper Kone speaker into an already existing guitar cabinet will sound bad...


    However, the Kemper team certainly designed and tuned the Kemper Kabinet in accordance to Celestion's recommended Thiele/Small parameters, and developed the KPA "Kemper Kone" DSP algorithms based upon the as-engineered, as-built cabinet/speaker system.

  • I am absolutely certain this is true. That is not to say that retrofitting a shipped-loose Kemper Kone speaker into an already existing guitar cabinet will sound bad...


    However, the Kemper team certainly designed and tuned the Kemper Kabinet in accordance to Celestion's recommended Thiele/Small parameters, and developed the KPA "Kemper Kone" DSP algorithms based upon the as-engineered, as-built cabinet/speaker system.

    You're right. It Need not to Sound bad at all, but possibly less authentic .


    Are you sure, that the Kemper Kabinet has been constructed according toTHIELE/Small-size Parameters?

    This would explain to me, that in one Namm-videos someone lifted the Kabinet and told it wasn't that light-weighted at all. We all know, that a Thiele-Cab is pretty heavy .

  • That's the problem with whizzer cone speakers, it is very difficult to get any response above say 10-12kHz with a 12" cone with a whizzer, and the response gets a bit strange in the highs (weird dispersion and flatness anomalies). There are ways to improve the response with a whizzer, but it drives up the cost of the speaker and perhaps makes it a bit less road rugged.

  • You're right. It Need not to Sound bad at all, but possibly less authentic .


    Are you sure, that the Kemper Kabinet has been constructed according toTHIELE/Small-size Parameters?

    This would explain to me, that in one Namm-videos someone lifted the Kabinet and told it wasn't that light-weighted at all. We all know, that a Thiele-Cab is pretty heavy .

    Hello Hurricane,


    I probably shouldn't have used such definitive/absolute language.


    While I am not 100% certain that the Kemper team used Celestion's T/S specifications for the speaker in question...let's say that I can't imagine Kemper engineers not taking into account the T/S data and constraints in the final cabinet construction and design.

  • Since you're ripping the guts out of the Cry Baby anyway, just buy a broken one off ebay. I just bought one for around $20 or so, found a TRS jack, wired it to the stock 100k Dunlop pot that came with the pedal, and it works perfectly. $25 and about 10 minutes work, can't beat that.

    And that is exactly what I did. Fixed the wah, tore out and sold the guts for more than the $10 I paid, then installed a spare 100k. Works great. I may have the kemper color matched then airbrush it over the black wrinkle finish.

  • Those dunlop pots also can also come with different value ranges. The main point of mission, aside from aesthetic, is the values are prematched to the device. No calibrations needed, ever. That makes them worth a few extra bucks for me. Also dunlop makes crappy treads.

    Take it from someone who just converted a Dunlop CryBaby to a compatible expression pedal. There is far more to Mission than aesthetics. There's a huge difference in mechanical tolerance, particular in the pivot tension mechanism. It took me quite a bit of effort to get the Dunlop stable enough at heel-down to avoid turning the wah back on when I lift my foot. The Mission stays exactly where you leave it. Of course, this is nothing that a hysteresis setting on the KPA wouldn't fix, but I'm not holding my breath for this feature.