Power Amp vs FRFR speakers: the big decision

  • Hi there. I got the unpowered version of the KPA cause I got a deal I couldnt go wrong with. This was just after I got a Mesa 2 x 12 vertical cab with v30s to match with a 50 W EVH i never got. Was expecting to use my Helix LT through the effect loop of the eventual head and have the sound of the Mesa Cab for recording or just for the pleasure of playing. But then I considered going FRFR in the meantime, as I got my eyes on the seemingly afforable Laney LFR 112. Still, I would be curious to hear the KPA running through the Mesa Cab I already own, but from what I read in forums, loop in the head dont seem to be a winner, and having a power amp + cab in the equation might prevent you from hearing the best of your KPA rigs, compared to FRFR/flat/powered speakers. If you can share your thoughts or experiences, that might be helpful.


    considering:

    - KPA to Mesa 20/20 poweramp and Mesa Cab 2 x 12

    - KPA to a similar power amp or solution like the eventual Fryette LX II (which coming soon but might be pricey?)

    - going FRFR with KPA to Laney LFR 112 or Alto S310 just for monitoring and record direct. (this option would let me use the cab similations of the KPA which are

    sounding pretty good already thought my small studio monitors.


    p.s the description under the Fryette might be inspiring.

    ''Now you can hear what that model is supposed to really sound like!''


    http://www.fryette.com/lxii-stereo-power-amp/



    Kemper rack unpowered, Art SLA Power Amp, Mesa TC-50, Laney LFR 112, Chapman ML3 Pro Modern, Solar Artist 2.6, Charvel Pro-Mod DK 24, J, PRS Paul Allender.

    Metal radio show host at CFOU 89,1 FM - https://subversion-le-metal-show.captivate.fm

    Edited 2 times, last by SlyTowerhead ().

  • My experience won't match yours exactly, but for what it's worth...


    I bought the powered head so I don't have to buy an extra power amp. That said, probably any good power amp is fine. When I first got it, I ran it into my 1960a 4x12 (20 year old V30s), monitor cab off. It absolutely sounded good.


    I was also running L/R main out to the studio mixer and reference monitors. That sounded good as well. One of my favorite rock profiles (I do classic rock) is a Klon / Friedman profile. Even though I really enjoyed playing through the 4x12, there was some additional detail to the sound that I was getting in the studio monitors that I really liked and was missing out of the Marshall.


    So, I bought an FRFR. In my case it was a Yamaha DXR-10, which is powered. I didn't need the power but a) it gets a lot of love here and b) it's a very small footprint, which was important. Now what I hear through the FRFR sounds like what I'm getting out of the studio monitors (and thumbs up on the DXR-10).


    I guess the point of my story is that yeah, I ended up liking the detail I get with reference monitors / FRFR, but make no mistake, the 4x12 still sounded good. It's just a different kind of good.


    In your case, if you bought a power amp and passive FRFR instead of an active one, you'd have both the FRFR option and also the ability to use your Mesa and any other cabs. Since you like what you hear through the studio monitors you'll probably want an FRFR, but if you also like options, that might appeal to you.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • My first Kemper was a Rack non powered version that I got at a very good price. I then needed a power amp but couldn't afford one off those expensive ones. So I went the cheapest way while I saved some money. I bought a super affordable Harley Benton GPA-400.


    https://m.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm



    It was used and I paid 100€ for it. And you know what? It sounded killer. Didn't need to go for the expensive one in the end.


    I now have a powered head because it's more convenient to have everything in one piece. But my advice would be to try for yourself and don't believe everything you read in forums. They're just opinions and your's might be different.

  • Sly, welcome to the forum! The Fryette was supposed to be released in 2014 "officially", so don't count on that option just yet. ;)


    FRFR is great or run through any amp depending on the color you want. Works for me! I use 2 DXR10's or my 5150III, Marshall, Mesa etc... into a Wizard or Marshall 4x12 or my Mesa 2x12. Or all of em' lol, YMMV depending on your needs! Try and go have a listen somewhere, but of course rooms will vary in treatments so be mindful there!:thumbup:

  • There is no right or wrong answer to this dilemma. It’s just personal taste.


    You need to think aboutwhatYOU are trying to achieve and then pick the option that works best to YOUR ears.


    I have a Powerhead for convenience and it sounds amazing with my Mesa EVM12L Thiele cab when I need to use something like that.


    Positives = loud, convenient and sounds/feels EXACTLY like playing through a real Boogie.


    Negatives = the speaker is a MASSIVE part of the sound of any amp so using the same guitar cab tends to impart a similar sound on all profiles.


    If you love the sound through studio m itors (my preferred option) then you are likely to like FRFR or no cab and just IEM. However, if studio monitors sound a bit TOO detailed for you then a traditional cab might be more suited to your needs.


    As well as a pair of EVM12L Boogie cabs I also have a horizontal Rectifier 2x12 and a Simul-Class 2:ninety power amp. I would NEVER want to drag either of those to a gig when I could just take my Powerhead and a 112 or an FRFR cab.


    If you need to feel the thump of a full stack kicking you in the chest you probably need a big power amp and some 412 cabs but you will sacrifice flexibility and detail by doing so - horses for courses as we say. However, if you are looking for this type of physical experience don’t expect a 20/20 and 212 to deliver it either.


    Some of the choice will be genre specific too. Any decent Class D power amp should work well for just making great profiles louder and retaining the tone of the profile. However, every valve power amp will impart it’s own signature on the tone. Some people love this, others don’t. If you are looking for drop tuned metal tones at high volume I would go FRFR instead of a 20/20. The 20/20 is a great

    Ittle power amp and is plenty loud enough for anything I would ever need. However, it is a n EL84 amp. When driven hard it should add some chime and breakup but they aren’t known for low end thump. On the other hand if you are doing a Tom Petty cover band an EL 84 driven amp will probably sound glorious. If you need to cover a lot of different bases a Class D power amp and flat response speaker is probably better.


    Some people swear that you need a valve power amp to get the real power amp feel. I did a test the other day wher I profiled just my 2:ninety power amp and an a real Triaxis through both the real 2:ninety and Kemper profile of the 2:ninety through the Kemper power amp. Both signals fed idential EVM12L cabs. There was absolutely no difference to my ears or fingers.


    Try a few options out and go with what works best for you personally.

  • Actually I am using my powered Kemper with inEar (live), Guitar Cab (live as my monitoring system and sometimes at home) or Studio monitors or my Yamaha DXR10s. I chose powered to be as flexible as possible. Of course with the guitar cab I do not get the speaker sound of the profiles. But for simple monitoring purpose it is good enough for me.

  • Thank you all for sharing your experiences and advices!

    Mr. Atlantic, I considered the Harley Benton GPA 400 from a seller, but finally I bought an Art SLA-1 2 x 100 W which is all I needed (and afordable) to play the profiler through the cab. It's a 'different kind of good' indeed like Chris says, with the cab vs the studio monitors. Didnt tried the Frfr or power speaker yet. As for direct recording, lots of high gain profiles sound pretty good with Cab sim along with external impulse reponses (which that makes somewhat two cabs in the chain, something most people dont wanna hear about, but certain presets sounds good together, tweaking or not.). Still processing ideas....!

    Kemper rack unpowered, Art SLA Power Amp, Mesa TC-50, Laney LFR 112, Chapman ML3 Pro Modern, Solar Artist 2.6, Charvel Pro-Mod DK 24, J, PRS Paul Allender.

    Metal radio show host at CFOU 89,1 FM - https://subversion-le-metal-show.captivate.fm

  • My take is that I like FRFR better than a cab. The primary reason being that the guitar cab always has the same sound, whereas the original cab comes through in the FRFR.


    I regularly switch between small Fender amp profiles and big fat EL34 ones and no matter what guitar speakers I use will be a compromise.


    This seems to be what the Kemper Kab is aiming for.

  • I use both...guitar cab and FRFR....


    Why I hear you cry, mainly because I like the look of a 4 x12! Seriously, I tend to use the FRFR unless playing a venue with cabs so I can just plug in.


    I bought the powered so I had the flexibility without having to worry about a separate amp.


    Guitar cabs smooth out the sound and the profiles can sound "samey". FRFR for me definately sounds better and matches the FOH so you monitor is closer to your main sound.


    Hence I'm trying for find an empty 4x12 cab to hide my FRFR speaker!