Kemper and In ear (EIM) questions

Quote from flcmcya

Very cool!

I just got a 2 pack of ear mould!

Awesome! I’d be curious to get your thoughts on them once you’ve had a chance to try them out. I’ve been quite happy with mine.

*IEM. In Ear Monitors.

And of course, your $500.00 in ears sound better than the $100.00 pair that came with your wireless. Not at all surprised at that. My SE425s were better than my 315s and my 215s (until I broke 'em)

If it were me, I'd just have a stereo feed from FOH and ask sound nicely to balance you out.

The G30 is meant to be on the floor- not sure how well it would work in a rack. You could get a rack shelf for if you wanted to try it out. Or just velcro it to the bottom inside of the rack.

Quote from kingsxman

Update: so got the Westone AM pro 300's. I can tell you that they sound superior by far to the Shure SE215 ear buds that came with my Shure PSM 300. The midrange is probably the biggest thing. They actually HAVE midrange! The SE215's dont sound "bad" per se....but if you dont have something else to compare them to you would have no idea how much better the Westones sound. I cant really get a read on the ambient portion yet as we dont have a gig until the end of March.

My plan is to have my monitor send from FOH plugged into the left channel and mix the 2 together. So plugging my Kempers monitor out into the right channel of the Shure and having the Shure set to mono, I was able to get a great tone from the Kemper. Sound in both ears since the Shure is set to mono. To test the Shures ability to do what I'm planning, I ran a speaker output from a mixer into the left input and just played some backing tracks from my phone into the mixer. The Shure mixed the 2 signals very well into a single mono mix. If I need more guitar...I just turn up the unlinked master volume on my Kemper. Of course this all depends on getting a good FOH mix from the sound guy...but I think it'll work.

Now, my question to everyone is: what kind of racks are you running to house your EIM systems? The Shure PSM 300 is rack mountable...but my guitar wireless is a Line 6 G30. ....NOT rackable. I'd like to get this all somehow in a single rack unit and make setup as easy as possible.... Recommendations?

I have both the SE215 and SE315 and it is all to do with voicing. The 215s have presence boost and heavy bass, while the 315s more pronounced in the mid range. You can find the frequency chart here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/…15-se425-and-se535-page-2

Using in ears in mono mode with a full mix can be quite limiting. I would recommend finding some way to give yourself a stereo mix of the band and add you Kemper to that. It is hard to pick things out without some separation in panning if the mix is busy. Initially I used a simple 4 channel mixer, but now my band run our own monitor system through a computer, so no need.

I have a Sennheiser for IEM rack mounted and a G50 velcro to a rack tray. The Line 6 unit even sticks to velcro with just one side applied for the G50.

I never mix my guitar direct into my IEM's, all done off the desk. Its quite easy to ask the sound guy to add more guitar...its way easier to get a balanced sound. I'd much rather hear my guitar in context than blasting. Takes about 5 mins more at sound check at different venues, when using our own PA, its all pre-set.

I also don't rack mount my IEM's for that reason....Its next to the sound guys desk.

Really glad you like the sound of the Westones, I think they are also way better than the 215's , although to be honest they are in a different price range.

Quote from kingsxman

Thought I'd list a quick update. Had my first gig with my in ear system last night. I had my kemper going directly from the monitor out into the left channel of the my Shure PSM 300 setup. My plan was to have the sound guy run me a line from the board into the other right channel of my Shure system. I was going to rely on getting a mix of all the vocals (especially my own) and some keyboards from the sound board, then mix my guitar signal in as needed with my unlinked "master volume" monitor out. There are only 2 of us using in ears so we dont have a "band" setup...just our own small rigs.

First problem came when sound guy was running late. He was scrambling to get us ready to go. Then, the only "cable" he had to give me for the feed to my transmitter (Shure) was an XLR. The Shure takes 1/4 in plugs. I figured "no sweat"...I'll just grab my direct box and run it into that and then to my Shure. The XLR he handed me was a male end....which was the same as what my direct box had! Luckily...our keyboard player (only other guy using in ears) runs into the same problem and had an extra female to female adapter so I could plug that into my direct box and then plug in the sound mans cable. Final problem came when we really didnt get any kind of sound check so I just had him throw some vocals in my ears without having much time to do any mixing or much level setting.

Started the show and my first impression for the first 3-4 songs was "WTF am I doing this for!". It was so weird and disconcerting that it really threw me off. I was adjusting my guitar level to try to get a decent mix but it was very very odd and definitely affected my performance. After awhile I started to get used to it but was never "comfortable" all night. The kicker was all of sudden with about 30 minutes left in the show my in ears just die. Nothing. Luckily there was some guitar coming through our vocalists monitor so I was able to pop my in ears out and at least hear "something" of what I was playing. Turns out the battery in the pack ran out. WHAT? It was essentially a new battery. I had it on for maybe 30 minutes at home testing the system out and turned it off during the one break we'd had. Unceremoniously had everyone wait while I got 2 new betteries and threw them in the pack and started back up again.

Long story short. (too late I guess)....by the end of the night I was used to it enough where I see the value. But there definitely is a hassle factor and a learning curve associated with this. Learnings are to come any kind of connectors that I may need and to make sure I have extra batteries sitting out. the band is "talking" about potentially getting a full in ear system. If we do...that will make life much easier (other than I'd have to haul the friggin' setup with me!).

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The higher-end systems all use XLR setups, with my Sennheiser G3 system having both XLR and 1/4" capabilities. I would recommend something like that for your next setup. As for batteries, yup I have had that happen (only once to my knowledge). If you're going the rechargeable route (like I do), spend the extra few dollars and get the Panasonic eneloop pro series batteries/charger. Worth the money for the reliability, plus they actually retain charge if left sitting, unlike most cheap duracell variety rechargeables.

I second letting FOH run 1 line into your IEM receiver and mixing EVERYTHING from aa monitor mix (i.e. not going L-kemper R-mix on your unit), but just my $0.02

Your experience here is not unexpected...

A bit of background - MD runs it's own monitor world - we use a behringer X32 rack, and I personally use a PSM300. It's a fantastic system. I do NOT mix my kemper with the rest of the world in my ears on the wireless.

So- this what you should be doing:

1) Take the feed from the mixer. In stereo. You're *already* getting a feed from it- so there's absolutely no need to compicate things by adding to it.

2) For the FOH, you can simply use an XLR->1/4" cable. There's no reason to use a direct box here.

3) Batteries... I'm willing to bet you used regular - got them next to the smokes at the circle-k - batteries. Don't. If you MUST use disposable batteries, you need the industrial class ones.

For example:

https://www.amazon.ca/Energize…53989027&s=gateway&sr=8-4

You will probably want to have 2 or three pairs for a show.

However, if you want to get enviro-friendly or more cost-effective, eneloop pros will be your friend. You will still want multiple pairs, but in my experience, the eneloop pros last as long - if not longer - than the energizers I linked above.

4) Batteries part 2:

Note- the in ear belt pack will chew through batteries faster if you crank up the volume. Turn it down!

5) the way we're doing it (with our own monitor world) we don't need to do much to soundcheck the IEMs- 7/10 times we're close enough not to have to worry about it. We also rehearse with them. YOU NEED TO AS WELL.

Sorry to hear you started with so many struggles kingsxman. I can't believe the PSM300 doesn't have XLR inputs at that price. I guess you could invest in some XLR to jack leads.

If there is one thing I have learnt with any wireless system, it is you are playing a risky game with rechargeable batteries (if that was the case). You never know when they are wearing and I get really cheap yellow Ikea AAs that last 8 hours in my Sennheiser EW300. They go in children's toys to run the last juice out afterwards, or use at rehearsal.

Also getting a mix from the board in mono is very difficult to work with compared to a stereo sound. In your situation I would get a cheap line mixer to take your Kemper in with a stereo mix and that would deal with the XLR/jack problem too. Alternatively use the aux ins on the Kemper to create your mix.

How long do you guys play in a typical show???

Our routine is that our monitor engineer changes everyone's Batteries (AA in the Sennheiser receivers) before every show.

Then next show day we soundcheck in the afternoon using those same receivers (with their day or two old batteries)

If soundcheck goes long enough that those batteries are no longer working then we change whoever needs to be changed. But most often they are fine still.

Then, after sound check, before show, again, everyone gets new batteries.

I’ve never had batteries die like that.

They certainly last a lot longer than the 2 hours or so we use them.

I know people do it, but I can’t see using in-ears without a dedicated monitor mixer/engineer.

Otherwise you’re locking yourself into having to live with whatever problem occurs during a show.

For batteries, Eneloop rechargeable are the bomb.

https://www.amazon.com/Panason…54085488&s=gateway&sr=8-4

You can get them in 12 packs, and different chargers.

@kingsxman - I had to go look ... I just got out of a 3 hour rehearsal. Let's say it was 2.5 hours of actual use - we took a break. I had freshly charged Eneloop Pros in it. Volume usually at around 1/2 way. I just powered on the pack and it's showing 50% remaining on the little battery meter. Would I trust it to go the whole 4 or 5 hours? No. In a live setting I would have swapped them out after each set (so I'd use a total of 6) - but that's just my paranoia. I could easily go 2 sets in a row with them as is, but since we're silent stage I don't want to chance it.

That SAME belt pack on regular batteries - I would for SURE swap them out after each set. I've had it happen where it died on me.

On the soundguy thing - yeah, I get it. And it's your EARS now, not something sitting on the floor. Totally understand where you're coming from. However, I've never had a FOH engineer tell me 'i hate mixing IEMS'- in fact, with rare occasions, they OFFER to do it. (Since we run our own monitor world it's not necessary).

I've never had a FOH guy tell me its a problem to use IEM's, in fact they prefer it as it reduces feedback issues. Anyway, some strange ones out there.....

Regardless, I think you will struggle with just the KPA and ambient sound to make up your mix.

Batteries - forget the rest, you want KentLi lithium ion rechargeables. as good as Duracell but fully rechargeable and keep voltage right up until they die ( 3.6v but resisted down to 1.5v). Ive used these for about 3 years now in both my guitar wireless and IEM's. Brilliant. Especially when I accidently leave them switched on! Usually last me at least 2-3 gigs on a charge, often more.

Strange about the shure system, even my cheap LD has XLR / 1/4 combined input. Anyway as mentioned a converter should cover it.

My point here is persevere, it will take a few gigs to get used to them and sort your set up but it is worth it in the end. No ringing at the end of the night and protects your hearing long term.

I know what you mean about the disorientating sound. Our band runs it's own FOH and IEM and the desk is pretty much set up ready to go when we load in. We are doing a lot of weddings etc and often only have 30 - 45mins to get in set up and check. On my second IEM gig I wanted to start tweaking the levels a bit (the desk is right behind me on stage) so I turned up the lead vocal, bvox a little and bass a lot. Then we started the next song. Holly crap literally all I could hear was guitar taking my head off . I had to endure it until a the end of the song when I found out I had turned up the wrong channel. It was easy fixed but it did screw up my confidence for the rest of the set.

Quote from Wheresthedug

I know what you mean about the disorientating sound. Our band runs it's own FOH and IEM and the desk is pretty much set up ready to go when we load in. We are doing a lot of weddings etc and often only have 30 - 45mins to get in set up and check. On my second IEM gig I wanted to start tweaking the levels a bit (the desk is right behind me on stage) so I turned up the lead vocal, bvox a little and bass a lot. Then we started the next song. Holly crap literally all I could hear was guitar taking my head off . I had to endure it until a the end of the song when I found out I had turned up the wrong channel. It was easy fixed but it did screw up my confidence for the rest of the set.

Been there

On the flip side the amount of gigs I've done with IEM's and the sound is so much better than the on stage sound. The biggest issue for me is disengagement from the audience...you see them clapping ( sometimes!) but can;t hear them..

Quote from V8guitar

Been there

On the flip side the amount of gigs I've done with IEM's and the sound is so much better than the on stage sound. The biggest issue for me is disengagement from the audience...you see them clapping ( sometimes!) but can;t hear them..

Simply add two ambience mics pointed at the audience. Beef those up with a compressor but have them ducked by the FOH band mix. This way you can hear the audience inbetween the songs without messing up your IEM sound when playing.

Quote from tylerhb

Simply add two ambience mics pointed at the audience. Beef those up with a compressor but have them ducked by the FOH band mix. This way you can hear the audience inbetween the songs without messing up your IEM sound when playing.

Yeah tried that albeit with a single mic. Need to try it again..

Quote from V8guitar

I've never had a FOH guy tell me its a problem to use IEM's, in fact they prefer it as it reduces feedback issues. Anyway, some strange ones out there.....

Regardless, I think you will struggle with just the KPA and ambient sound to make up your mix.

Batteries - forget the rest, you want KentLi lithium ion rechargeables. as good as Duracell but fully rechargeable and keep voltage right up until they die ( 3.6v but resisted down to 1.5v). Ive used these for about 3 years now in both my guitar wireless and IEM's. Brilliant. Especially when I accidently leave them switched on! Usually last me at least 2-3 gigs on a charge, often more.

Strange about the shure system, even my cheap LD has XLR / 1/4 combined input. Anyway as mentioned a converter should cover it.

My point here is persevere, it will take a few gigs to get used to them and sort your set up but it is worth it in the end. No ringing at the end of the night and protects your hearing long term.

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Thanks for the heads up on KentLi

I know lots of FOH guys who simply don’t want to have to do monitors at all.

Not different with IEMs

I know I’m spoiled. But a dedicated monitor engineer is the only way I’d really trust IEMs.

Otherwise I’d rather a wedge.