Connecting via an ethernet hub?

  • One common scenario I have is the Kemper in the studio control room next to the console and computer, which makes it very easy to work with. When I'm in the live room, with the Kemper still in the control room, I'm typically playing / recording to a Cubase session which is changing the Kemper's profiles via CC. This all works great. The remote hasn't been connected since CCs handle the profile changes, but I'd like to connect it just to have access to the tuner.


    When I bought the remote, I also bought one of the recommended PoE adapters for longer cable runs. While I could run an ethernet cable under the door and into the live room, that's somewhat less elegant than I prefer. I really don't want to crawl through the ceiling and run a dedicated cable just for the remote if I can patch it into my existing infrastructure.


    In the server room of the studio I have a couple of 24 port 10/100 hubs as the entire house is wired with Cat5e and terminates here. What I'd like to do is just patch the remote port of the Kemper into the PoE adapter then into the hub, as there's a run that comes from that into the live room. I could then plug the remote into the hub in the live room and have a nice, tidy setup.


    I have two questions / concerns regarding this. First, this is the only PoE device I've ever worked with so I don't know if running power in and out of the hub is potentially harmful or is simply ignored. Second, because it's a hub, there will be other traffic. Does this confuse the remote, or is it able to isolate the data stream being sent to it?


    The only manual I could find on the remote was the quick start guide. This is a bit outside the normal usage so not surprisingly there wasn't much there. Can anyone speak to these two concerns?


    Thanks!

  • hi Chris,


    this is totally do-able and it should work, but I think you'll have to connect it like this:


    remote <---> PoE injector (+power-supply) <---> hub_live_room <- - - - - - - - - - - - -> hub_control_room <---> PROFILER


    so the PoE injector should be on the remote's side, and the 'hot' end of the PoE injector should be connected to the remote.


    regarding power: plugging-in a PoE 'hot' end into a regular hub should not break anything, because in that case the PoE injector won't ramp-up it's voltage.


    regarding traffic: communication between KPA and remote should work even with other traffic on the wire.

  • Thanks, man. Yes, that makes perfect sense putting the PoE right before the remote. Very cool that the additional traffic isn't an issue, obviously well designed.


    Will get a chance to play around with this tomorrow night. I'm sure it'll work as expected but will follow up with success just for completeness.

    Alternatively you could just plug into a Boss TU3 but that would be too easy for you Chris ;)

    :P


    The wireless is in the control room with the Kemper, so I'd be running an audio cable under the door from the Kemper alt out to the Boss instead of an ethernet one from the Kemper to the remote.


    Clearly you've never seen me trip over even the most inconspicuous of cables. :)

    Is it truly a hub, or is it a switch?

    I honestly can't remember but given how I tend to do things it's probably a switch. I just look at a bunch of inputs and say "hub" out of reflex.


    I do have a very high end corporate Cisco Router/Switch/RocketEngineMonitor that an IT friend gave me. I downloaded the manual to read up on it. It was 650 pages long.


    It makes a very nice paperweight.

  • The wireless is in the control room with the Kemper, so I'd be running an audio cable under the door from the Kemper alt out to the Boss instead of an ethernet one from the Kemper to the remote.

    No problem. Two wireless. One to Boss in the live room. One from Boss to KPA in control room. C'mon Chris think out the box man.

  • Yep, let us know how it works. Theoretically it should work, with the KPA being it's own DHCP server or the two are statically assigned IP addresses so they can talk to each other. They'll probably be on another subnet anyway and would not interfere with any traffic on your network. Looking forward to the update.

  • Well, that was a quick test.


    For reasons passing understanding, when I built this place I wired cat5e into every single wall. Except in the studio. Maybe because the server room opens to the control room and I figured I wouldn't need it for the live room. So, there's a cable run across the drop ceiling to get the network into the room when a hard line is desired.


    On the opposite corner of a 40 foot room.


    Argh!


    The whole point of the question was to avoid having to run cable. Since it's now clear that I have to do exactly that, I may as well run a dedicated one for the Kemper. I did a little poking around on connecting PoE to non-PoE devices, and the word "damage" appeared more often than I'm comfortable with. It may well be device specific, i.e. some adapters are more well behaved than others, but since I haven't done the deep research to know for sure, I'll opt on the side of safety.


    kpahuitsing, thanks so much for your help. Not your fault that I'm too stupid to remember where I ran the cables. :)

  • where were you connecting PoE to a non-PoE device?

    I was going to route it through my hub / switch, which is connected to every computer and wireless router here. Even though I would have put the PoE next to the remote as kpahuitsing recommended, I simply don't know enough about how, or how far, that power will travel back downstream.


    Might have been harmless but trusting to my ignorance has led to some interesting life situations in the past. :)

  • Completely understand being cautious about that but your IT guys at work should confirm for you that any decent PoE injector would be safe and only sending power upstream to the Kemper Remote. They're used on IP phones (for ex.) where PoE is not available through the local switch and they're used a ton. Good luck Chris whichever way you decide to make the Live Room more Kemper friendly :thumbup:

  • ny decent PoE injector would be safe and only sending power upstream to the Kemper Remote. They're used on IP phones (for ex.) where PoE is not available through the local switch and they're used a ton.

    Thanks, man. Always something new to learn!

  • Did some playing around with it this evening.


    The only cable I have that's long enough is a 100 foot one that I've had for over a decade. Probably not even cat5e, just cat5. I plugged it into the back of the Kemper, then added the PoE adapter, then ran the Kemper cable that comes with the remote to the remote itself. 120 feet of cable, most of it inferior quality and quite old, and the remote performed perfectly.


    While I don't want to run a cable that's twice as long as I need, and will buy something that's also the appropriate quality, I figured this would make a good worst case scenario test. The rig didn't even sniffle, so I'm impressed.

    No problem. Two wireless. One to Boss in the live room. One from Boss to KPA in control room. C'mon Chris think out the box man.

    Okay, Alan, this one's for you. :)


    Just for the fun of it, I took a spare wireless that has a bug style pack and plugged it into the direct out of the Kemper. Cable out of the wireless unit into the Boss TU-3 (which apparently you knew I had). Fired it all up and the Boss worked perfectly, as one might expect. Of course, in this configuration it doesn't mute the guitar, but hey, can't have everything, right?


    I'll be running a cable to the live room for remote as that's a little too Rube Goldberg even for me, but fun just the same. And you didn't think I'd really try it, did you? :P


    Now, on to more serious matters. Does anyone have recommendations for the appropriate quality ethernet cable, preferably something I can snag on US Amazon? Looks like 40 - 50 foot will do the job, would appreciate any suggestions.

  • Completely understand being cautious about that but your IT guys at work should confirm for you that any decent PoE injector would be safe and only sending power upstream to the Kemper Remote. They're used on IP phones (for ex.) where PoE is not available through the local switch and they're used a ton. Good luck Chris whichever way you decide to make the Live Room more Kemper friendly :thumbup:

    By the way, after actually taking the adapter out of the box, it was clear which was the sendy part with the power. I'm assuming it's diode-like so that power only goes out the powered port and not backwards into the source, which wasn't clear to me the other day. Now it all makes sense, thanks for the help .:)

  • Maybe something like this?


    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G…sw_r_em_apa_svMczbQRV59H4