Decibel level when playing and practicing?

  • We mostly play and practice at our studio. It can handle an audience of 100 or so. It has a large stage, seating, a bar, a big dance floor, etc.

    We are 2 guitars, bass, and drums, and sometimes have a conga player as well.

    We also have 3 vocals.

    The only thing going through the PA is vocals right now, and all players just have their own backline. Drums are not mic'd.

    Sometimes I find myself driving home with my ears ringing, and do not like that at all. Other times, no problem.


    Question... do you ever measure your loudness level on stage, or out in the audience?

    If so, what levels are you most happy with?

    I know I can use ear protection, or move the band or myself to IEM, but am looking for that happy/safe decibel level for us and our audience.

    I'm going to measure our next practice with a smartphone app (tomorrow night), with the goal of finding a level that we all agree on, and sounds good/great.

    I realize that the app will not be exactly accurate, but it will give me a reference point.


    Cheers,

    Dave

  • I don’t have an exact figure for you except


    ‘If your ears are ringing when you get home it was too loud’. From my crude understanding, if you get ringing, you’ve just done a little bit more damage and it unfortunately doesn’t heal.


    I know that’s a killjoy attitude but I’m aware that I love music. If I make it to be an ancient and have some spare time, it’d be nice if I could listen to music at home and still hear the sizzle of a high hat.

  • I don’t have an exact figure for you except


    ‘If your ears are ringing when you get home it was too loud’. From my crude understanding, if you get ringing, you’ve just done a little bit more damage and it unfortunately doesn’t heal.


    I know that’s a killjoy attitude but I’m aware that I love music. If I make it to be an ancient and have some spare time, it’d be nice if I could listen to music at home and still hear the sizzle of a high hat.

    Yup... pretty much why I/we want a display (smartphone/tablet) that we can see when we're at or getting close to the levels we all agreed on.

  • https://www.flareaudio.com/pro…1JrQaWEAAYASAAEgIZn_D_BwE


    I know when I was gigging, stage volume was always a problem in terms of everyone is too loud. For us, we had a horn section (2 piece on most songs but on a couple, the keys player would get a trombone out too!). Those guys are bloody loud when you’re close and, to hear the guitar over them, it’d creep up. Then the keys would creep up. And then everyone just plays harder when the room gets going..... my ears used to ring too.


    I bought some of these for gigs; yes, you certainly lose a bit of fidelity but they work. I’ve seen some really loud folks over the last year or two. I still really enjoyed the concerts and no ringing ears. Maybe overkill for stage but maybe not?

  • https://www.flareaudio.com/pro…1JrQaWEAAYASAAEgIZn_D_BwE


    I know when I was gigging, stage volume was always a problem in terms of everyone is too loud. For us, we had a horn section (2 piece on most songs but on a couple, the keys player would get a trombone out too!). Those guys are bloody loud when you’re close and, to hear the guitar over them, it’d creep up. Then the keys would creep up. And then everyone just plays harder when the room gets going..... my ears used to ring too.


    I bought some of these for gigs; yes, you certainly lose a bit of fidelity but they work. I’ve seen some really loud folks over the last year or two. I still really enjoyed the concerts and no ringing ears. Maybe overkill for stage but maybe not?

    Nice, thanks Gary!

  • As a general rule from work safety guidelines (here in Finland), spending time consistently in noise over 85dB can cause permanent damage. Rough guideline is that you should be able to be heard without shouting.


    And definitely get yourself some audio earplugs! I recommend Etymotic Research ER20XS.

    Thanks for that!

  • I suggest three things:

    1) Get a person to come to your jam and sit at various places in the room to determine whether how your music projects to all parts of the room. Keep in mind that when a lot of bodies are in there, there may be less projection. Make notes.


    2) Discuss with your bandmates why you think you guys are too loud, i.e. ears ringing. Once that is done, I would suggest having a discussion about cutting someone's volume rather than raising everyone else's whenever these balance issues arise.


    3) Since you are using the same equipment to monitor yourself as well as project the music to the audience, tradeoffs are bound to happen. I'd suggest the band look into the possibility of exploring a silent stage kind of setup with IEMs, or maybe routing more of the mix through the PA instead of driving the individual amplifiers harder.

  • It’s an important topic, as hearing damage is permanent accumulative, and surprisingly easy to achieve if you’re a musician. As Gary_W mentions, the ringing is a sign that damage has occurred - this is the swan song of some tiny hair cells in your inner-ear as they die, having been over-stimulated by frequencies they were designed to vibrate in sympathy with. You’ve got quite a lot of them, but your sensitivity to those frequencies reduces with time and further high-level exposure. It’s worth getting a hearing test each year if you gig a lot. I started to discover a 4kHz ‘hole’ in my hearing response in one ear, and it was due to proximity to drum kit on stage. Ear plugs in sound checks/rehearsals and changes sides of the stage/trying to keep more distance will have helped since.


    Most venues I visit (e.g. arts centres, functions rooms, concert halls and clubs) have to adhere to regulations regarding max SPL. You’ll find that most rock/pop band rehearsals will exceed 90dB at audience distances, but some venues can have this set limit (others slightly higher). It can be influenced by venues being near residential areas as well, to try and limit sound leakage out of the building.
    If you stay over the limit for a certain amount of time, it can cut power to the stage, or the main power amps if there’s a house system, which is less than ideal. This is a public health and safety limitation, but the trouble is, SPL diminishes with distance, and the placement of measurement mics has a very significant impact on what readings are taken. For example, just one of my small Genelec studio monitors is rated at 97dB at 1m. That metre is important though, as the SPL will halve every time the distance is doubled. So at 2m, it will be 91dB, at 4m it will be 85dB and so on. (For reference a 3dB change in signal is half the signal intensity, and it takes 10dB before the average person perceives half the volume), so whether it is really too loud for someone in the front row is up for debate if the measurement mic is just above the front of the stage (as is common). In pro live tour venues, the FOH engineers/system techs will have a measurement mic just in front of the mix position that is used to measure the difference in signal between what is being sent to speakers and the signal after room acoustics have been involved, plus the SPL levels that most of the audience are experiencing at a known distance. It often hangs around the 100dB point for average at a big rock show. This is loud, but not dangerously loud as long as there is some respite. Peaks can go beyond that, and if you’re right at the front next to a floor stack or just under one of the flown speaker arrays, you’re maximising your chances of getting permanent hearing damage. The reason people get their kicks from this is that over 100dB your inner ear starts to generate the same kind of output as when you’re free-falling, due to overstimulation. Giggity.

    What I’m trying to say is, measure at the listening points/distances to get a good idea of what’s going on, both in the audience and on-stage. You also need to consider whether it is the length of exposure to high SPLs that is contributing. For example, if you’re in a death metal band, I’d throw money down that 90% of the set time you’re full tilt, full spectrum in terms of sound intensity due to distorted guitars and plenty of cymbal crashes. This long exposure to high frequency intensity is definitely something to be aware of, and ear plugs are very effective at cutting high end (recommend moulded), although your singer will struggle to pitch correctly.

    As nightlight suggests, IEMs are one of the best ways to reduce your stage volume. I’m a singer and guitarist, and I go through phases of loving or hating them, as the sense of being in the moment and hearing the audience is cut down, even with ambience mics at the front (these make a big improvement though). Monitor consistency is great, and if they are well-fitting, they really cut down on the bleed into your ears from others’ backline amps and floor wedges, so the levels of what you’re sending through them can come down. If you’re having to drive your IEMs hard still to get over the levels on-stage it could well be worse than the issue you were trying to avoid in the first place, so it’s best that everyone is on IEMs rather than a combination (unless you’re playing a massive stage and far apart).

    Ed / Audio Systems Engineer / Kemper Stage + Fender fan

  • dont have a good dB level for benchmark, but the typical rule of thumb is: as low as possible at rehersal, as low possible stage volume, and a FOH audience experience that suits the room/energy/muisc style. Put as many instruments though the PA as possible. Live performance is all about what the audience hears. The performers just needing to hear what they are doing enough to put on the show they have rehearsed. With some crafty amp positioning, you can dramatically reduce the stage volume and achieve this pretty well. Earplugs are always good. You really get

    used to them quickly.. especially if you always rehease etc with them in. Have some recommendations on plugs if you are looking for some real use opinions. Let me know!

  • Well for two practices in a row, my phone app measured an average of 95 - 97 with a peak of 103.

    I guarantee that the app is not accurate at all, so I'm not stating that those numbers are real. The point being that we toned it down and maintained an agreeable level without ringing in our/my ears.

    Still considering plugs anyway.

  • I have an iOS app on an old iPad that displays. I keep it under 95dB unless I get frisky and then might go to 102-105

    You gotta have the right guns when you enter the town of tone. And please, shoot ALL fanboys you come across!

  • The Flare Audio plugs I mentioned earlier in the thread are currently on an offer of ‘buy one, get one free’. My eldest daughter tends to tell me to ‘turn it down’ (bit of a weird role reversal there) and, whilst she’s been to polite gigs before, she hasn’t yet experienced a crazy-loud show. I took advantage of the offer to get a pair for both kids so, should I take one of them along to something, I won’t have to worry.