Sometimes, when performing as solo or duo, with no bass (maybe in acoustic), I often feel I miss some lower octave.
It would be nice if there was the option to add 1 or 2 lower octaves to the root frequency of the chord.
The detection algorithm is already there, and adding just one note would not mess with the chord (like it happens instead when Octaver affects all the played frequencies).
A fuller sound through lower octave
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Do you mean that the Kemper should automatically detect the lowest note of a chord and then adds 1 or 2 octaves below? If yes, this isn't possible. The Kemper can add octaves but not to single notes while others stay unaffected. ASFAIK only Piezo systems can handle strings individually, so the problem with your request is not only the Kemper but also the kind of pickup you're using.
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Do you mean that the Kemper should automatically detect the lowest note of a chord and then adds 1 or 2 octaves below? If yes, this isn't possible. The Kemper can add octaves but not to single notes while others stay unaffected. ASFAIK only Piezo systems can handle strings individually, so the problem with your request is not only the Kemper but also the kind of pickup you're using.
I’m not sure that’s correct. In the past only Hex Pickup dsigns could separate out notes but digital algorithms are now so advanced that they can do amazing things.
Remember when guitar synths came out and you needed hex pickups and 13pin cables etc. now this little software app that can run on an iPhone does all of that an more.
https://www.jamorigin.com/docs/midi-guitar-for-ios/
Now if you could integrate that into the KPA that would be something really special.
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Wheresthedug: Hm..I only watched the first video but it has nothing to do with "find a certain note, apply a sound/FX to it and leave the other notes unaffected". But this is what the OP requests. Do you know more or do I misundestand you?
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It is a fully polyphonic midi convertedr that runs off standard guitar pickups without the need for hex or piezo outputs for individual strings. If an algorithm can extract individual notes from full chords and use them to trigger midi synths then it isn't much of a leap of imagination to extract the same notes but process them differently with an octave effect or other guitar effect. In fact it should be much easier to use a simple crossover at a specific frequency and add an octave to everything below that frequency.
I have only used the demo version of the midi guitar app but it is astonish how accurate it is. Easily as good as the Roalnd guitar synths wiht hex pickups.
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You can just use the analog octave stomp for this, or for a more natural sound simply up the bass in the amp block. Algorithmically of course it's possible as Melodyne DNA proved, but I suspect that's a pretty high-latency/costly algorithm to do in realtime.
In general what you really want is to use an app like music memo's on your iPad or iPhone, or even the "Jam" mode of that old Rocksmith game and have a virtual band member add the bass. Failing that work out whether you can learn to love your guitar tone as is, or just maybe you could be a bassist in hiding and not realize it yet.
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Do you mean that the Kemper should automatically detect the lowest note of a chord and then adds 1 or 2 octaves below? If yes, this isn't possible.
Yep, this is what I am suggesting.
Of course it is not (currently) possible, that's why I am Requesting this Feature?ASFAIK only Piezo systems can handle strings individually, so the problem with your request is not only the Kemper but also the kind of pickup you're using.
Mhhh... I might well be wrong, but don't think string recognition would play any role here. It would just be a matter of detecting the lowest emitted frequency, which the Profiler is already doing for the several currently-available Octavers.
You can just use the analog octave stomp for this, or for a more natural sound simply up the bass in the amp block.
I imagine you are aware that both alternatives you're suggesting have nothing to do with my feature request?
The Analog Octaver is pretty much monophonic, and when you play chords it tries and add octaves everywhere and, as I wrote, messes the sound up (a lot!).And, of course, raising the bass level is a totally different matter, and would not produce the the effect I have in mind.
I suspect that's a pretty high-latency/costly algorithm to do in realtime.
Well, if the KPA is able to generate a polyphonic octaver (that is, reading each "string" (or better frequency) and generating a lower octaver for each of them (Harmonic Pitch), I can't see how it would be more CPU-demanding to filter all the harmonics and just generate one octave?
In general what you really want is to use an app like music memo's on your iPad or iPhone, or even the "Jam" mode of that old Rocksmith game and have a virtual band member add the bass. Failing that work out whether you can learn to love your guitar tone as is, or just maybe you could be a bassist in hiding and not realize it yet.
This all sounds really funny, but again, what has it to do with the Feature Request?
If guitarists had "loved their guitar tone as is", we all would still be playing lutes
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It would just be a matter of detecting the lowest emitted frequency, which the Profiler is already doing for the several currently-available Octavers.
Not sure that I'm understanding you right. Do you mean the Kemper is already capable of detecting the lowest frequency? If yes, do you have an example?
If an algorithm can extract individual notes from full chords and use them to trigger midi synths then it isn't much of a leap of imagination to extract the same notes but process them differently with an octave effect or other guitar effect
Yeah, I understand what you're saying but I don't see such a behaviour in the video. I only hear sounds which are applied to all strings (not only to one string or a certain frequency).
As I mentioned above I'm not sure that I'm understanding everything right because I'm not a native speaker.
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Octaving an entire signal (chords included) is much less processor intensive than determining the individual notes of a chord and manipulating them. It’s really just the equivalent of playing a tape (or delay) at half speed. You can also use the crystal delay for this effect.
What you asked for was accompaniment and to have added bass in your signal so it doesn’t sound thin. If you don’t like the available options suggested (which should give you an insight into how likely the option you’re after is on the Kemper platform) then you are better off adjusting your arrangements to not sound as thin if you’re playing without the added band members, or using a backing track of some sort, or maybe there’s a dedicated tool out there already that does this. Or just hire an extra band mate,
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I don’t believe the KPA is currently able to do this. However, it converts the analog signla to a digital and then aplies all sorts of magic to the sound. Take an example like Melodic Pitch Shifting. The KPA must identify the original note then apply the harmony required for that specific note. It can do this with multiple notes at the same time. Therefore, it appears to me (but I could be wrong) that the KPA should be capable of doing what the OP asked if someone could write the code to do it. I.e. the limitation is most likely i. The software (which can be changed relatively easily) rather than the hardware (which would require a totally new unit).
The video is only intended as a way of showing that it is possible to identify and separate out individual notes without the need for special pickups or other hardware. It can be done in the software world. The midi example seems to have found some guitar synth magic equivalent to what CK found with guitar amps. I have no idea how they do it but having tried the app it is clear they have found something special.
I am only think out loud and saying that I don’t believe there are technical reasons the KPA couldn’t do what the OP wants. However, the actual programming required to make it happen is probably pretty complex and may be beyond what Kemper are prepared to spend time on with so many other user requests to deliver already. But the one thing CK and the team have plenty of is imagination and an ability to surprise us ?
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Not sure that I'm understanding you right. Do you mean the Kemper is already capable of detecting the lowest frequency? If yes, do you have an example?
What I mean is that once the device correctly generates an interval for each played note, low-passing the incoming signal doesn't require any out-of the-world technology.
I don’t believe the KPA is currently able to do this.
I agree. Hence, the feature request
Unless you mean that you believe it's impossible for the current hw to achieve this task?the actual programming required to make it happen is probably pretty complex
Well, 2 quad-delays in series to further 6 in parallel (the last two of which are intermodulating) looks quite complex to me as well... but the Profiler can do it.
Or maybe you mean the algorithm would be too complex for devs to write it?On a general note, I believe we should leave to Kemper to determine if the thing is doable (provided they are willing to consider the option).
OTOH, I find normal that some users are not interested in such feature.
I won't, for obvious reasons, comment over suggestions such as "hire a band mate". When I read requests like "can we have a metronome?" I don't usually answer "buy one" or "hire a drummer", unless I am quite drunk, stoned or for some reasons angry at the world: I prefer to not comment, to save mine and others' time.
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pippopluto we are in agreement on everything thing here.
I used the midi converter example merely as a wat to illustrate that good programming can achieve things of a similar narutre to your request but far more complicated so, although your request is not currently possible in the KPA, i believe it should be achievable without any alteration to the hardware. If a regular guitar and an iPhone can do full polyphonic midi conversion with negligible latency then I believe the existing Kemper HW can easily do what you want.
I think it would be a great addition to the KPA to develop that side of its capabilities but as you pointed out, much will depend on development priorities which are largely driven by user demand. It will be interesting to see whether there is sufficient motivation for Kemper to develop this at some point.
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pippopluto we are in agreement on everything thing here.
I used the midi converter example merely as a wat to illustrate that good programming can achieve things of a similar narutre to your request but far more complicated so, although your request is not currently possible in the KPA, i believe it should be achievable without any alteration to the hardware. If a regular guitar and an iPhone can do full polyphonic midi conversion with negligible latency then I believe the existing Kemper HW can easily do what you want.
I think it would be a great addition to the KPA to develop that side of its capabilities but as you pointed out, much will depend on development priorities which are largely driven by user demand. It will be interesting to see whether there is sufficient motivation for Kemper to develop this at some point.
Yep, I don't think there would be issues in terms of hardware: AFAIK, DSPs can be programmed to represent any kind of HW circuit. Of course we are not sure about the quantitative side of things, but it's hard to me to believe that low-passing an incoming signal would take more resources than 8 intricately-routed delays or reverbs
Most of my gigs are solo or duo performances with a singer, and an octave lower than roots would really add body to a guitar without messing with the clarity of the whole chord(s), which is the limit of using any of the diverse instances of the currently-available octavers , harmonisers, pitch-based fx -- specially when you use an acoustic and you have to play arpeggios halfway through the neck. Such a small addiction would give such a spectacular sonic result... (thinking of chorus and reverb on top...)
There certainly are much less usable (used?) effects in the KPA, such as Vinil Stop (which I nevertheless love for what it does)
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If you want to do this for an acoustic tone, there is a small workaround.
1) Create a parallel path in the first two slots.
2) Create an EQ in Slot A that kills as much of the high frequencies as possible.
3) Create an octave effect in Slot B.
Hopefully this will suit your purposes until Kemper considers this feature request!
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If you want to do this for an acoustic tone, there is a small workaround.
Thanks nightlight
Your idea might have some use, except that it excludes the extra-bass from the whole fx chain, which would probably sound weird with the more "ambient" rigs where a chorus, a delay and a reverb would at least be used.My request would of course solve (avoid?) this, and that's the reason why I've come up with it
I know the Profiler rather well and I have been unable to get a sonically elegant and usable tone till now.Also, thanks for your encouragement
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This might be of interest:
https://www.facebook.com/subma…aljQ_Voag&fref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARBgTxD8IK7WesIel-PJ3LiY7fQSYsbEUQVavDHFLrE2kv86FMPxWAd4zXwtt-T7mGsiTH1qCVeN3cucRC92B9ogmm5w9rL-OgMSpevrKM049gQNmLJw62wJep17pnupMNdEMHQCvpSImveG_TZCjCgGRglnog10Ra7d5y-OXOiUtCkn2bgFxWAjCMixZFtTSbVwKoBToDGy05inOj7d0sRvVw
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Ha! Thanks Andy
Like most things, this is something more and something less that what I am after. Nice idea nevertheless
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I just recorded some stoner tracks with huge basses with the help of the shift pitch pedal ( dialed to -12 at toe ) this way , just toe the expression pedal and the bass octave is there on a given part of a riff . Track upcoming sooner or later ...
just remember to adjust the %mix of the pitch to suit your tone and the quantity of bass octave , mine was set around 50 %.
I also setup a bass boost , but with a real pedal.
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Hey waraba, this is not what this FR is about
I use the octave down function(s), but those easily mess up with clarity with cleaner sounds, chords or fast arpeggios.With a little research, I found I am not alone in this request. Not only the function has already been requested (here), but methods aimed at getting the same results have been discussed (here).
This is true not in the Kemper realm only: one of the first entries I've found in google was this.
What I find a bit weird is that on both Kemper request threads there seem to be lots of suggestions about buying/using different hardware in order to get what the OP is requesting :p
In my mind, people start threads in the Feature Requests section because they are requesting some functions to be made available within the Kemper ecosystem. Granted, sometimes what the OP requests can be already made, and suggestions are more than welcome in those cases. OTOH, when the suggested solutions imply drawbacks (such as slots wasting (we don't have plenty, do we?), third-part hardware purchase, sonic compromises...), the request does make sense.Naturally, we all have to come to grips with the fact that most requests just can't be satisfied for the most diverse reasons. But, as I wrote, I believe that the function discussed here would certainly be used more - say - than effects such as Vinyl Stop
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I play often in duo with a singer and I use the OC-3 to lower the last two string by 1 octave and have the "bass+guitar" effect.
Having an external pedal somehow degradates the signal chain and it also means more cables, power supply and noise.
I'd prefer the Kemper Octaver and it would just need a filter to cut the upper frequencies from being doubled down.
Please, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would benefit from a relatively simple tweak to an already existing effect!
Thank you
