Fractal Audio FM3 announced

    I'd love to be able to download a few rigs to a little standalone Kemper pedal for situations when there's no time or space to set up my whole KPA rig. Plus that provides a backup without having to buy a second KPA.


    At the moment the Helix pedal is the best option, but the Fractal looks like it'll be great too.

    The only thing I envy is the integrated audio interface. It's one less thing to buy, and one less object on the desk. I'm currently looking for an interface and it's really tough. I'd like to buy something with SPDIF as it seems a bit silly to buy such an expensive piece of hardware and not using the best possible output of the device.


    I have been looking, but I couldn't find an interface that really convinced me. The headphone-amp of the 6i6 isn't great (tested that myself) and it's big. The Arturia Audiofuse kind of fits the bill (tons of ins&outs and it's small), but reviews aren't that great.


    I really wish the UA Arrow would have spdif, because I love the fact that it's bus powered (one less cable) and that it's small (I like a clean desk). I'm really tempted to buy that interface and use the main xlr outs...


    Anyway, to come back to my point, I guess that I'll spend around EUR 600 for the interface + quality cables. And I'll have an additional device on my desk, which I really don't like. That's a real disadvantage of the Kemper.


    Don't think of an audio interface as a disadvantage, because it's likely that at some point of time, you will want to hook up other instruments, studio monitors, etc.


    In that sense, the Kemper could never equate to a good audio interface, even if it had the capability.


    Have a look at the MOTU Ultralite, that may tick the boxes for you. Tonnes of IO and good drivers.

    Predictably, being a MOTU fan, I second AJ's suggestion, guizmobro.


    MOTU's offerings span the whole gamut of tiny through to "large" formats. You should easily be able to find something in the "small" format that'll give you your desired S/PDIF, a decent headphone amp, mic preamp/s, XLR and TRS I/O including a Hi-Z guitar input and multiple options for connection to your computer, all in one unit.


    Also, I agree with AJ that your concerns WRT the Kemper's not having a built-in interface are unfounded. The cost of the unit would have blown out significantly had the company tried to include an "everyman's" audio interface. People's I/O needs vary greatly in accordance with the sizes and formats of their setups, and on top of this, many tend to need to expand their I/O counts as their equipment collections grow. IOW, we'd all be paying for something that very few in the real world would find useful in the long term IMHO.

    nightlight  Monkey_Man


    You both have a point. However, my reality is that I'm a living room guitar player, playing exclusively with headphones and studio monitors (right out of the Kemper). It sounds amazing.


    If I want to record that amazing sound, I need to spend more than EUR 500 on an interface (I saw admins posting on this forum that interfaces in that price range are necessary to capture the Kemper's sound in all its wonderfulness).


    You're advising to look into the MOTU ultralight (thanks for the tip btw), which is an 18x22 interface. Now, never say never, but there's like a 1% chance I will one day need all those ins & outs. I don't sing... I might need 2 inputs for a hardware synth once in a while and that's it. I just want to record some tracks within my Logic session with all my software instruments (omnisphere, ezkeys, ezdrummer, etc.). I don't need a gazillion ins & outs. Basically, I pretty much only would use the SPDIF in (not a reamping kind of guy, so no point in using the spdif out). It kind of seems overshoot to buy such an interface and to only use one freaking input.


    I never recorded with Line6 or Fractal hardware, but I can't imagine the interface being that bad... I would be quite curious about that actually.


    If you look at it, pretty much all direct competitors of Kemper do have an inbuilt interface. It's not the end of the world that the Kemper doesn't, but it still gives me a lot of headaches in terms of what to buy ;)



    Well here are a couple of uses you possibly haven't thought of with so many inputs and outputs!


    1) Midi in/out: You can set up your computer to automate changes when you are playing on a recording. Nothing like doing it live, very different vibe from a chopped up recording. You can also use the midi in to record the CC# of your expression pedal and then tweak that if necessary within the DAW.


    2) Record SPDIF git/analog signal. Then use one stereo input for master stereo. Use mono output to another input with just a mono sound.


    3) Hook up the Kemper and the keyboard at the same time. Trust me, nothing as irritating as having to continuously plug in and plug out stuff in the middle of a session. If you get other equipment later, you will basically have future-proofed the interface side of things.


    In my case, at home, I keep my Kemper hooked up, my reactive loads hooked up, my synthesizers hooked up, and can also hook up my drumkit (though I usually trigger using midi instead).


    Obviously YMMV, but I always find that when I buy to suit my exact needs at the time, I have to buy again down the line.


    Keep in mind that those 18 inputs include ADAT and whatnot as well.

    Quote from guizmobro

    You're advising to look into the MOTU ultralight (thanks for the tip btw), which is an 18x22 interface. Now, never say never, but there's like a 1% chance I will one day need all those ins & outs. I don't sing... I might need 2 inputs for a hardware synth once in a while and that's it. I just want to record some tracks within my Logic session with all my software instruments (omnisphere, ezkeys, ezdrummer, etc.). I don't need a gazillion ins & outs. Basically, I pretty much only would use the SPDIF in (not a reamping kind of guy, so no point in using the spdif out). It kind of seems overshoot to buy such an interface and to only use one freaking input.

    Ditto to what AJ said, plus, as I said:

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    You should easily be able to find something in the "small" format...

    You could go smaller with any of these:


    MOTU.com - UltraLite-mk3 Hybrid


    10 inputs, 14 outputs


    “As the first-ever "hybrid" audio interface of its kind, the UltraLite-mk3 Hybrid provides flexible and mobile operation via FireWire or hi-speed USB2 connectivity to a Mac or PC computer, with professional audio quality at samples rates up to 192 kHz and plenty of I/O, including two mic/instrument inputs, six line-level analog inputs, ten channels of analog output, stereo S/PDIF and a stereo headphone output.”


    MOTU.com - Audio Express


    6 inputs, 6 outputs


    24bit 96kHz S/PDIF, sample-accurate MIDI, mic pre’s, 2 x Hi-Z instrument inputs, FireWire or USB hookup, DSP-driven phase lock engine (ultra-low jitter), footswitch input, onboard mixing etc.


    MOTU.com - 4pre


    4 mic pre’s, 4 line inputs, 4 line outputs, 2 x Hi-Z instrument inputs, S/PDIF, FireWire & USB, onboard mixing etc.


    These two have “unique” physical designs that might appeal to you:


    MOTU.com - Track16


    16 inputs, 14 outputs


    2 mic pre’s, 2 x Hi-Z instrument inputs, 4 line inputs, 4 line outputs, MIDI I/O, USB & FireWire and can even run on FireWire bus power, 2 x headphone jacks, 3 optical digital formats


    MOTU.com - MicroBook


    1 mic pre, 1 Hi-Z instrument input, headphone out, 4 line inputs, 4 line outputs, S/PDIF out (no input), 8-bus digital mixer, USB


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The reality is that the unit isn't aimed at "living room guitar players". It wouldn't make commercial sense, as I suggested earlier, for Kemper to cater specifically for this subsection of its market by "penalising" everyone else with a premium to cover the additional I/O costs.


    It's a harsh reality for dudes in your situation, I know, but that's how the cookie often crumbles in the high-end-pro market, I'm afraid. Hope I've been of assistance in some small way, man. ;)

    Quote from Nikos

    Indeed I was thinking about to edit this phrase..but the fact that the AX8 is obsolete after just 3 years..this is a classical "gadget" phenomenon.Just compare how much obsolete products Kemper and Fractal have(even since 2012)..enough said..;)

    1:37, John Mayer playing leads with what I think is axe fx 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ib5tQu6LyU


    He could have used an axe fx 2 and still sounded amazing at that show, or ax8 for that matter... even if I think axe fx 3 is ultimately better, if not by a "big" margin (an obviously comparative, evaluative judgement) according to my preferences and observations while testing out the units. Axe fx 2 wasn't running a version of "Ares" at the time.


    And Metallica didn't suddenly sound bad when Axe Fx 3 was announced either, certainly not due to still using axe fx 2 back then. In that sense, I do not believe that any of these units are "obsolete" when it comes to tone.


    Now of course.. surely there is some devaluation considering market pricing, money you can get for selling such a device... But to me it ends there, really, assuming repairs are still supported for some rationally deduced time-period.


    Kemper could well release another 4 new kemper units, even some with improved profiling. My current kemper would not suddenly sound terrible. Heck, my pod xt can still sound pretty good to me, even great, most certainly better than many profiles created to fit other people's tastes.


    That said, my kemper would likely be "obsolete" too, by that point.. But in what sense of "obsolete"? Well, in much the same way fractal units are, my pod xt is, in the sense that they are no longer produced and may receive no updates.


    Ok. But I can live with that.


    I couldn't care less, in fact, other than perhaps repairability, provided what I do use or want to use these units for. It certainly does not have much to do with feeling like I have the "newest and greatest".


    If I did develop such feelings, to be frank, I should probably self-reflect and get over them fast. The main interest, use of these units would be -- or should be, for me -- trying to be creative in one way or another, on whatever scale that's possible.


    That does not of course mean I wouldn't buy a new kemper... if I felt it was meaningfully better for me.


    But "meaningfully better" does not render the first kemper "tonally obsolete" -- in the way I feel matters -- provided what I think of it now. I can sure imagine some cases where our standards change radically, even for good reason, sure. But provided how good profiling already is, I doubt there'd be such a wide room for that to happen.


    I would likely buy a "new" kemper if I felt it got even closer to source, to the point where I can't tell the difference in feel between my profiles and my amps. I'd likely go that route if I was playing and being creative. But again; the first kemper would not be "obsolete" in the sense that I feel matters the most.

    The bonanza

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().

    Like 1

    Thanks nightlight and Monkey_Man ! I will look into those. I probably will buy a used UA Arrow, which you can get for about eur 350. If I don't like it, or if I need more inputs, I can always resell without loosing too much money. Also looking at the RME Babyface pro (which has spdif). But I have to say that I'm quite tempted by the UA universe. I might as well go with the Apollo, which has an adat in.

    @Dimi


    Φίλε..let's not twist words here.."obsolete" means that some (digital) device stops being "supported".How much of L6 and Fractal has been stopped being supported now?It is a kindergarten for guys with GAS.So be it.I am fine with that.It is just not my thing.


    On the other side..take what Christoph said.Even with a KPA2 the current one will continue to get "supported" by all means just like Kemper does with their synths for some two decades now.It is just a very very serious company which has "musicians first" written big and fat on their banner since the first day.Not because they are the mother Teresa's of the music industry..but it is their buisness politics and musicians love that.


    Let us not deny the facts here.

    Edited once, last by Nikos ().

    Like 1

    If my aim was to "twist words", I would not distinguish between different possible meanings of the word in this context. I'd just adopt the worst possible interpretation of the word, perhaps, which I'm sure is the way some interpret the usage (and hence perhaps needing some clarification).


    In terms of support, it is my impression that, typically so, neither fractal or line 6 stop "supporting" their units immediately just after a new one released (surely that depends on just what we mean by "support" too).


    Buying an ax8 in Europe before it was discontinued would give someone 3 years of warranty. Assuming that'd be honored, it pushes overall "support" -- I assume it means repairability -- to quite a few years from the date the device was originally released. That's assuming they stop repairs right after, having calculated stock for a limited enough time period, unable to or not wanting to use another part for the job.


    Of course, Kemper will also eventually need to release a new Kemper as well as CK notes in the video... and if "support" is to mean updates, it's not like virus is/has been updated lately the same way it was before. Then again, Cliff from Fractal even took the time to port Ares to Axe fx 2, at least a version it could run, showing strong intent to offer users what is possible, what their hardware can run.


    Now, I doubt fractal would be able to do what axe fx 3 does with the hardware of axe fx 2. There's many fresh functions. Some of these could even save a band quite a bit of money too, depending on what their usage is. Even if these devices are meant to be used as "tools", I can definitely see someone preferring the 3 over the 2. FM does offer some of its own bonanza, on that end, even if one can argue the unit is less of a "successor" to ax8 in comparison to Axe Fx 3 and Fx 2. Still, it offers a new form factor and is able to run a version of Ares as well.


    I am not sure Cliff would have been able to make Ax8 run Ares at all, considering his approach with Axe Fx 2.


    My point is that I doubt the differences in updating hardware makes kemper "super serious" and perhaps fractal less so. If these are devices meant to be used as tools, fractal has produced some pretty fine products, enhanced tools in one way or another. Kemper has also done their part obviously, focusing on working with the existing hardware of the kemper unit, releasing peripherals from time to time.


    But it's not surprising that what fractal did with Axe Fx3 need stronger computing power than 2 could offer; or that offering the form-factor of FM3 is a cool idea. For someone like me, soon to be travelling a lot again, I'm more tempted by the FM3 than AX8 just due to form factor alone. Some prefer ax8 form factor still.


    So I don't know what the "facts" are in this case.


    I can understand someone prefer kemper's approach to fractals and the other way around. But I can see the merits of both approaches (to the extend that they are indeed different) and don't think it makes one company so serious while another may, I would assume, not be. If we were talking about some extreme situation where fractal and line 6 release a unit for 5 months and then run off as if users requesting support are bigfoot, releasing a new one, well, that'd be a different bonanza.


    PS: my post is long, but not aimed to "attacc" you somehow or derail. Considering what this thread is about, it's no wonder such topics come up.


    PS2: I think there's plenty of "GAS" in kemper land. One could argue that the constant flow of new profiles serves such a function for many! :) It's a gas-tastic situation.

    The bonanza

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().