Fractal Audio FM3 announced

  • A Tone Match is a hi-resolution EQ, very much akin to an IR, but using a longer sample time (e.g. or maybe multiple samples taken over time?) in order to make input audio A sound like the sampled clip, given a reasonably close amp is already there.


    So a Tone Match (in a Tone Match block) created on the AxeFX II/III cannot be shared with an AX8 user since the AX8 does not have the Tone Match block, but a Tone Match block can be converted to a CAB block to share with an AX8 user to load and use.


    That's my understanding.

  • A Tone Match is a hi-resolution EQ, very much akin to an IR, but using a longer sample time (e.g. or maybe multiple samples taken over time?) in order to make input audio A sound like the sampled clip, given a reasonably close amp is already there.


    So a Tone Match (in a Tone Match block) created on the AxeFX II/III cannot be shared with an AX8 user since the AX8 does not have the Tone Match block, but a Tone Match block can be converted to a CAB block to share with an AX8 user to load and use.


    That's my understanding.

    I wasn't totally happy with the results of conversion before. But I didn't spend so much time testing this out properly, to be fair. In any case, it's also possible to shoot such IR without using Axe Fx conversion at all, using EQ matching software. I would care a lot about making my own "EQ match IRs" considering how much the input signal matters.

    The bonanza

  • I think i'd be more interested in seeing whether the shortcuts taken in order to put the FX3 engine in such a small box could indicate there are other things left out than tone matching.


    I mean, I've had floorboard processors before, and tone matching wasn't my priority. I was more interested in being able to craft good tones from the ground up.


    Cutting back on certain elements in the FM3 may not necessarily entail that it won't sound good, but it would imply that it isn't really an Axe FXIII with a small footprint, kind of like the Kemper Lite we have been discussing.


    I for one would not want a prospective floorboard to cut corners on tone versus the current box I have.

  • I for one would not want a prospective floorboard to cut corners on tone versus the current box I have.

    I think this would be the challenge, if a floor board option was offered, would it be equiv to the full KPA as another option to the rack and toaster - unlikely as there are practical problems, plus probably makes the rack and toaster redundant - who would want a rack plus Footpedal if the foot pedal does it all?


    If so, what would we want - what would we be happy to lose vs keep? No-one would want to compromise sound only features I guess...


    Persoanlly I'd like any footbaord to double as a footswitch for the main KPA. So,. I need to buy both to get all the features but choose when to take a cut down version out live vs the KPA as well. To me that's the best of both worlds.

  • I believe that today we could have much better solutions..more clever in any case.The whole concept of expensive floor-stuff which cost more than 1000€|$ is outdated IMO.


    We already have the remote.Maybe we don't need an extra floor-style "profile player" but just a (much)smaller "Pocket-Toaster"-Profile Player which could be used together with the remote?

    For very small gigs,rehearsals and jams I do not need much tweaking of my presets.An smartphone app to do basic adjustments before all starts(volume,fx-mix) would be more than enough.


    I would love to see such an idea become reality as a "option" for KPA-customers exclusivly.But since "any code can be cracked" I don't have any idea how to get this working..maybe there is a way?

  • Cutting back on certain elements in the FM3 may not necessarily entail that it won't sound good, but it would imply that it isn't really an Axe FXIII with a small footprint, kind of like the Kemper Lite we have been discussing.

    I wouldn't imagine the tone to be different than an Axe III, much like the tone of the Helix Stomp doesn't change from the flagship. But in a smaller format that is less expensive, you're of course going to lose some advanced functionality. That's to be expected since the floorboard is geared towards people who want a fast, convenient, portable option. But I'm sure the FM3 is selling the core of that the Axe III is.

    The whole concept of expensive floor-stuff which cost more than 1000€|$ is outdated IMO.

    Not when you consider the market still favors floorboards over head/rack configurations, if we're just basing it off sales. And it's not like pedals have gone out of style, quite the polar opposite. So if guys are still buying pedals like there's no tomorrow and making pedalboards to lay in front of them, it makes sense that your all-in-one multi-effects unit would follow the same format. Hell, with how much pedals cost these days, having a full pedal board for $1k isn't really expensive at all, especially when it can act as not just effects but also amp/cab. Besides, it's not like the Remote is inexpensive. For being a product that can only work as a slave to a single product (the Profiler), it's very expensive. Fractal also had an expensive foot controller for their flagship rack model, which is why I think a more inexpensive floorboard format makes total business sense. Same goes for Kemper IMO.

    We already have the remote.Maybe we don't need an extra floor-style "profile player" but just a (much)smaller "Pocket-Toaster"-Profile Player which could be used together with the remote?

    This has been suggested before. I recall Trivium in an interview about the Kemper wishing for such a thing. But still, I don't see how this negates the use of a floor model. You'd still be using 2 pieces of hardware at roughly the same cost and functionality as if you'd just have an all-in-one solution. That's precisely why people want a floor model.

    Maybe we don't need an extra floor-style "profile player" but just a (much)smaller "Pocket-Toaster"-Profile Player which could be used together with the remote?

    For very small gigs,rehearsals and jams I do not need much tweaking of my presets.An smartphone app to do basic adjustments before all starts(volume,fx-mix) would be more than enough.

    A smartphone app would be useful, but the KPA isn't Bluetooth enabled, so a new hardware would have to be. Though, this seems to stray close to the "digital gadgets" you earlier dismissed, having editors and apps.

  • To me this always sounds a bit like the Porsche marketing...


    They produce a 911 which is the best car they can make, then do a cheap version called the boxster...then decide the gap between to 2 is too large so they make a cayman, which is purposely a cut down 911, to make it not quite as good...if they made it too good, no one would need to buy a 911.


    I would hate for Kemper to do the same, we should be moving forward...btw I don;t know what the answer is - maybe that's why i'm not in marketing :)

  • To me this always sounds a bit like the Porsche marketing...


    They produce a 911 which is the best car they can make, then do a cheap version called the boxster...then decide the gap between to 2 is too large so they make a cayman, which is purposely a cut down 911, to make it not quite as good...if they made it too good, no one would need to buy a 911.


    I would hate for Kemper to do the same, we should be moving forward...btw I don;t know what the answer is - maybe that's why i'm not in marketing :)

    I understand that many want to make time stand still, this happens in every generation. Why not leave it to the customers to decide? I think they have already decided. They (many) want a Kemper in different formats. Not worse. Not cheaper but better. In different formats and with a lot more horse power. WTF! I don't understand all that discussion, this is the most normal thing in the world, even tube amps have developed a lot since Leo Fender designed his first circuit. Those who want to keep the old - just keep it. I will always keep an old version of a Kemper for whatever reasons and purposes and I will always love it and its sound but I need and I want a new version - NOW. The best and the most expensive Kemper II possible with all the options in the world. Why are so many afraid of it? I repeat my question: what if Line6 decides to include profiling into the next Helix? Yes, Kemper will lose all the customers who want a floor version. What reason speaks against being the first to provide a floor profiler? Because some don't need it? Many who bought a Profiler did not "need" it. But they bought it. Because it's good. And because afterwards they realized that yes, they needed it.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Edited 2 times, last by Alienator ().

  • I understand that many want to make time stand still, this happens in every generation. Why not leave it to the customers to decide? I think they have already decided. They (many) want a Kemper in different formats. Not worse. Not cheaper but better. In different formats and with a lot more horse power. WTF! I don't understand all that discussion, this is the most normal thing in the world, even tube amps have developed a lot since Leo Fender designed his first circuit. Those who want to keep the old - just keep it. I will always keep an old version of a Kemper for whatever reasons and purposes and I will always love it and its sound but I need and I want a new version - NOW. The best and the most expensive Kemper II possible with all the options in the world. Why are so many afraid of it? I repeat my question: what if Line6 decides to include profiling into the next Helix? Yes, Kemper will lose all the customers who want a floor version. What reason speaks against being the first to provide a floor profiler? Because some don't need it? Many who bought a Profiler did not "need" it. But they bought it. Because it's good. And because afterwards they realized that yes, they needed it.

    No one is afraid of a new Kemper, I think there are only 2 reasons why people would resist a Kemper 2:


    1) A compelling reason to spend more money/devalue the current Kemper. Do I need a KPA2? Not really. If one came out would I get one, yes I'd feel compelled ;). I'm fully bought into Kemper and if a new one was released I would get one just to ensure I have the best/latest


    2) Kemper has limited resources. They can;t do everything so what is the priority. Up until now I think most people would have gone with upgraded reverbs and delays before a KPA 2. A floor unit is definitely important for many people so I get that. For me, its not. I bought a powered rack to run like an Amp so the format is fine for me.


    I didn't buy a helix because I wanted the amp format plus the more natural sounds but I know I'm unusual :).


    BTW I think the valve amp is one of the slowest developing formats - Marshall and Fender designs have not changed that much in the last 50 years.


    Backing away now to avoid another " why can't we have a KPA 2" debate lol:)

  • Quote

    They produce a 911 which is the best car they can make, then do a cheap version called the boxster...then decide the gap between to 2 is too large so they make a cayman, which is purposely a cut down 911, to make it not quite as good...if they made it too good, no one would need to buy a 911


    Well..I guess this is all about?


    The KPA is "top-pro"..you buy it and you get what the "pros" are using.The exact same thing.Nothing "downscaled"..and all this for a very (already) more than fair price,top service & support plus longevity in a digital world..This is their reputation.


    Just because there is a "market" for something it does not mean that you have to follow it blindly.Today the market at midnight is "here" and in the noon it is "there"..nothing worth to loose your hard earned reputation.


    I guess the Kempers have all this "well thought" of and their "calculations" are serious..they have drawn their conclusions and we will see how these conclusions about "the market" will play out and what products we will see "next".


    For sure we will see some kind of floorboard from Kemper.I have no doubt.But I am sure(or at least I hope so) that it will be a clever solution.

  • Why are so many afraid of it?

    Several reasons.


    People don't want their product being "de-valued" in a market, even if they wouldn't sell the unit anyway... And having the best (as in newer, currently more marketed) a company offers could involve a further, significant-for-many financial investment. Things "remaining the same" then start to seem like an appealing outcome, something that has relatively little to do with using said device for music... which is ironic, considering efforts to define others as "not serious guitarists" as long as they don't fit one's market insecurities.


    It's often seen on forums.


    But of course that's not everybody (and I'm certainly not referring to poster you responded to; I don't think he fits into such a category!). I do believe it's a relatively big driving force when it comes to gear though.


    To my view, FM3 adds quite a bit to the table. This isn't simply a unit "kept under axe fx 3, but aimed to be close". In order to do all that axe fx 3 does you would need a much more powerful processors/ or set of processors. At that point you wouldn't sell FM3 for as cheap, and some portability would perhaps anyway be sacrificed.


    On the other hand, if we are not to take cost into account at all, both axe fx 3 and kemper would be quite different to begin with.


    There would be an extremely small number of people, compared to right now, who could afford a kemper 2 build on such standards. There's definitely some business considerations that come along with that. Some would argue it can still make sense to create such a unit. But I don't think it's a controversial claim that this isn't an easy calculation.


    One reason FM3 will be as useful is it adds a level of portability novel for fractal. I myself care about eq matching, a function it'll likely lack (there being the similar workarounds as with ax8, whether ideal or not). It may well be true that there are cut-backs based on not giving away too much from AX FX 3 too; but it's not like similar considerations don't exist elsewhere. It seems largely about just where the line is drawn, instead. This isn't to say that "just because people do it, it's fine/the way to go", either.


    The way I see things, FM3 brings something forward-looking to the table for sure: it's perhaps the most portable unit fractal has made, incorporating a version of Ares (very likely not missing much from amp blocks at all), even considering cut backs from Axe fx 3.


    PS: Surely it makes sense to ask whether cut-back (if we even view them as such) A or B does mean one should go for Axe 3 or another unit altogether.

    The bonanza

    Edited 4 times, last by Dimi84 ().

  • The KPA is "top-pro"..you buy it and you get what the "pros" are using.The exact same thing.Nothing "downscaled"..and all this for a very (already) more than fair price,top service & support plus longevity in a digital world..This is their reputation.


    Just because there is a "market" for something it does not mean that you have to follow it blindly.Today the market at midnight is "here" and in the noon it is "there"..nothing worth to loose your hard earned reputation.

    There may well be some "downscaling" or lacking certain features in other units kemper could release though. Considering they only have one such unit out, at the moment, well, there'd be nothing to compare to from the particular company.


    Of course, if the comparison is against "top-pros" instead, that's another bonanza. But could we not see "top-pros" using even a version of kemper that lacks a few features? Matt Heafy of Trivium had even talked of a "usb-sized" kemper, if I recall correctly. That would definitely come with compromises at least in terms of UI.


    And if it comes to possible tones, I think it largely depends on just what the "downscaling" or removal of features is about. I wouldn't mind if "pick" control was removed from such a kemper (even if it couldn't play back profiles while retaining altered pick control effect on sound). I also don't mind the particular amp block controls removed from FM3, considering there's so many of them -- these particular ones being unimportant for me.. Some "top pros" could care; others not.


    I would think that if it matters what "top pros" use, it's about the particular function, the artists illustrating some fine use, and considerations of whether one needs it or not.

    The bonanza

  • Here's Andy Wood with FM3.

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    Another a long video from someone using AX8, which I found interesting.

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    The bonanza

  • The KPA is "top-pro"..you buy it and you get what the "pros" are using.The exact same thing.Nothing "downscaled"..and all this for a very (already) more than fair price,top service & support plus longevity in a digital world..This is their reputation.

    You continually undersell other similar devices, such as the FM3, by referring to the KPA as "for pros" and implying the others aren't, which is plainly untrue. Lots of pros out there using Helix and Fractal solutions, and of course lots using Kemper. Let's stop this narrative that one is "pro" and the others aren't so we can have a serious discussion.

    Just because there is a "market" for something it does not mean that you have to follow it blindly.

    Of course, but it's not as is a floorboard format is any kind of philosophical violation for what the Kemper offers. They have a remote, so clearly they understand players need solutions at their feet.


    The FM3 is just the latest comer to the scene that fills a want & need that clearly exists. Kemper would be wise to participate in this segment of the market with a number of users here saying they would buy one without hesitation. Until then, the FM3 is likely to eat into those users who want an all-in-one floor solution.

  • @Dimi


    Every guitar player wants "what the pros are using"..it has never been different.This is it.Started with pedals and continued with PUs,FX,guitars and finally amps analogue to the growing wages 1970-2008."Signature" has become key for any marketing out there a long time ago.


    And while we are at this..there are not many "pros" and "Rockstars" using digital "all in one" floorboards out there.This is a fact.Digital floorboards were always since the mid 80 "low level" and had never "pro-reputation".


    Kemper has like hundreds of well known "Pros" using their Profiler while the price is very "reasonable" for most guitar players out there.


    So what can Kemper win with one more "usual floorboard" on the market cheaper or same price with their KPA?


    A smart tool,very small and handy though..for all KPA users..that would be something we would see for sure even with big names using it for jam sessions or rehearsals with other big names.

  • The pros use everything, not just the Kemper. Yes, including floorboards like the Ax8, Helix, and soon to be FM3.


    But it should really be about what is useful to the average consumer since they make up the vast majority of the market share.

  • The pros use everything, not just the Kemper. Yes, including floorboards like the Ax8, Helix, and soon to be FM3.


    But it should really be about what is useful to the average consumer since they make up the vast majority of the market share.

    Maybe they are not "pro enough" then? They need to be pro-er.

    The bonanza

  • Another video on FM3, this time by Leon Todd. He's been using AX8 for a long time and done a gazillion, very informative videos

    on the unit. He also has axe fx III, which he does prefer feel-wise to ax8, so it will be interesting to see what he thinks of Ares in FM3.


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    The bonanza