Help needed profiling hi-gain amps!

    Hello everyone,


    I've tried to find help about this for days (google, KPA manuals, this forum) and I just don't know what else to do but write a new thread.

    I've had my KPA for about two years now but I'm sort of new to profiling amps and I have this problem:


    I'm trying to profile hi-gain amps and every time I get this weird creaking (?) sound that occurs when damping the guitar. It doesn't appear on the reference amp, just on the new profile. I've tried different mics and cabs. Every time the same. I get good clean profiles. So after the profiling is done and I cross reference between the just-made profile and the reference amp: it only occurs on the new profile. Refining doesn't help. And I've tried different volumes by adjusting the amp's power amp and pre amp gains, lowered the overall gain and volume and stuff. I've tried with and without different pedals in front of the amp. I have not noticed any clipping in my monitoring system or DAW before, during or after the profiling. What have I missed? What am I doing wrong?


    I connect my mic straight to Kemper. Maybe this is the problem? Do I need a good preamp between my mic and Kemper?


    Here's a clip I made about this. The situation here is right after the profiling is done and I can change between "Kemper amp" and "Reference amp". First you can hear the Reference amp and then the Kemper amp.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ja70…0p%C3%A4tk%C3%A4.mp3?dl=0


    I really appreciate if someone could help me get towards better profiles. Thanks in advance!


    EDIT:


    Here is another sample. Same situation right after profiling. First you'll hear "Reference amp" then "Kemper amp":

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2p1…3%A4tk%C3%A4%202.mp3?dl=0

    Edited once, last by Phinxeli ().

    Really? There's a huge difference and we've been wondering it with my friend where it comes from. First sound in each clip is much tighter without the weird sound that comes after each damp sound of the guitar. Some sort of crackle. It literally destroys the gain structure.

    Mine all suffer like this as well. I have resorted to using a Studio EQ in the stomp slot and another in the X slot to remedy it. I usually end up cutting a lot of low end (150-225hz in some cases) as well as finding a few mid frequencies that get boosted and sound terrible.


    I also like to take the profiles into my DAW and get a visual representation of the EQ; tweak it until I like it, and then use the same values on the profile. I use the stomp EQ to cut the low end, cap the high end, and notch out the nastiest frequencies. I use the x EQ to bring a bit of presence/punch back into the profile, as well as notch out any extra nastiness I couldn’t get with the first.


    Edit: forgot to add: if definition is defaulted at 10 it also adds quite a bit of that funky sound, so roll that down to somewhere around 8. Also, when refining high gain: strike a chord and then hit refine. Let the chord sustain and end the refine. Then keep doing that with different chords until it sounds right. The pick attack seems to cause the definition to default to 10 and sounds awful.

    Damn, that sounds like a lot of EQing to get a good hi-gain profile. I don’t think it is supposed to work like that... but i gotta try something.


    Well at least it’s good to hear (or is it?) that someone has similar problems. Maybe someone has found an easier solution to this?

    I can hear it. It's like a low end flab. It sounds a lot thicker and more distorted than the reference. Is the amp not loud enough, or too loud?

    If you can't get profiling closer, try dudemanbrother's stomp EQ (before the amp stage) idea. Definitely cut the low end, you could try boosting the highs as a test too.

    Quote from Lobsta

    I can hear it. It's like a low end flab. It sounds a lot thicker and more distorted than the reference. Is the amp not loud enough, or too loud?

    If you can't get profiling closer, try dudemanbrother's stomp EQ (before the amp stage) idea. Definitely cut the low end, you could try boosting the highs as a test too.

    I've tried loud and very silent profiling, and from the middle. I think the whole range of volume :) Yeah I'm starting to believe it's about the low end even tough the original sound does not have that much low end I think. Maybe my monitoring is playing tricks on me...


    Quote from lespauled

    Are you using a mixer? If not, get yourself a cheap Behringer Eurorack mixer. Great PreAmps and a lot of control of your sound before hitting the Kemper. It has a low cut button as well as an EQ. Also allows for mixing multiple mics.


    Yeah I thought about this. I was actually supposed to mix SM57 and e906 but the mixer I borrowed was quite a disaster and could not get another one. Maybe I'll get a new or something!

    Quote from hendrix1406

    another thing, make sure that the pure cab state is completely off.

    Yeah it's been all the time. That one I picked from someone from this forum.


    Already at this point I gotta say that thanks everyone enormously for your help! Means a lot! I'm really thinking it's about the low end stuff that's doing some unwanted things. Tough, nothing is clipping anywhere. Gotta try again when getting home. Thanks again and greetings from Finland!

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I can hear the low resonance in the profile. It sounds a lot like something ringing in the room. Where is the speakers/mic positioned? Could it be a room mode issue. You could easily confirm thos by making a Direct profile and using an existing commercial cabinet preset to rule out the influence of your room.

    But why would that not show up in the recording of miced up/source tone?

    The bonanza

    Quote from Dimi84

    But why would that not show up in the recording of miced up/source tone?

    To my ears there is still a resonance (woof) in the recorded amp tone but it just seens exagerated in the profile somehow. It may not be the cause of the problem but by making a Direct profile you can easily eliminate the possibility. With many of theses things Some serious detective work is needed to uncover the real issue. I believe a structred appraoch starting with the things you can control beats a scattergun fire and hope approach :S

    Quote from Dimi84

    Sounds very different. Which amp are you profiling? This is definitely not "normal" for kemper when profiling works as its best.

    I have like 10 amps here to profile. Those in the clips Peavey 6505 and the other is Marshall Valvestate 100.



    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I can hear the low resonance in the profile. It sounds a lot like something ringing in the room. Where is the speakers/mic positioned? Could it be a room mode issue. You could easily confirm thos by making a Direct profile and using an existing commercial cabinet preset to rule out the influence of your room.

    I’ve ruled out the room by trying different rooms and damp setting. My normal cab place/setting is very damped/cushioned from the front side of the cab. And the resonance in the profile is there even with amp volume very low while profiling so that the the room doesn’t really resonate or anything. EDIT: I haven’t done a Direct profile but tried with different cab presets.


    Haven’t got a chance yet to try different the low end settings but when I have I’ll post here what happens.

    Edited once, last by Phinxeli ().

    A dinstinct boominess in the profiles.. I've seen with some amps. Whether it's the exact same thing, don't know. But there are some cases where kemper can go boom city. Been very rare though and even amp setting dependent.


    About OP's remark on having tried "different cab presets" -- you mean different kemper cabs? If you shoot studio profiles, the seperation between amp and cab parts won't be ideal.


    And if there's some issue with profiling and the micing, as people describe, perhaps there's some chance it carries over?


    It may be worth trying out some direct profiling, as mentioned. In any case, I'd make sure no pedals are used, no ts even, and to make sure there's no preamp and power amp distortion running at the same time.


    Since OP has as many amps, perhaps he finds out some others don't present the issue.

    The bonanza

    What's for sure is this isn't "profiling working at its best" .


    You shouldn't have to resort to trick A or B with eqs to get better results either.


    Something else is going on.


    I don't know enough about how valvestate works or what results people have had profiling that amp, but some amps can confuse kemper.


    The peavey.. I didn't have such problems profiling one last week. It had brand new tubes.


    If there's some amp that does always result to such profiles, I wouldn't use it at all for profiles, considering how relatively similar most amps anyway are, and how much of the sound comes from the cab/mic.


    But anyway - - since you have as many amps... Possible to try with more of them. And the direct profiling idea may be useful.

    The bonanza

    Quote from nakedzen

    If it's not the room, maybe one of the speakers is not tightened properly in the cab and resonates when the KPA is playing the low freq tones?

    I haven’t checked the speaker screws, but I’ve miced two different elements (not all four cause there are two v30s and two mc-90s and I prefer the v30s) in my Mesa Road King and I’ve tried a totally different cab, a Hughes & Kettner one, too.


    Yeah I tried different Kemper cabs. But no deal there. I’ve tried so many micing positions with two mics with different cabs and elements I think I’ve ruled that one out. This profiling problem actually has happened with at least 4-5 amps so far, tube and transistor. At some point I noticed that with TS the problem is slightly smaller and I can’t hear that creaking boominess that much. Maybe the overall gain just covers it... Somewhere in the forums I read about that power and pre gain controlling. Tried but maybe I should concentrate on that more...