Mute option during refining process?

  • In an ideal world, we would all have sound proof booths so that we are only comparing the miked sound from the reference amp with the Kemper profile, with no bleed from the amp itself. :thumbup:


    I suspect many of us are in the less-than-ideal position where we are monitoring in the same room as the miked up amp. When trying to A/B the amp against the profile, I am currently having to do this:


    Switch to Kemper Amp
    Walk across room and unplug the cable from the reference amp input
    Play guitar
    Switch to Reference Amp
    Walk across room and plug the amp cable back in
    Walk back and mute Kemper outputs on the mixer
    Play guitar
    Repeat from the top


    8|


    It would make life easier if we had the option on the KPA to just mute the Direct Out when listening to the Kemper profile and the Master Outs when listening to the reference amp. I understand that it would not give a perfect A/B comparison as the Kemper is profiling what the mic hears, not necessarily what we hear from the amp in the room, but it would make the workflow easier for those of us profiling at home rather than in a studio. :)

  • I would definitely NOT suggest muting the reference amp when you listen to the Kemper profile. The purpose of A/B'ing is to get an accurate profile, and muting your amp would pretty much kill that.


    If you really, really don't want to hear the amp, you could try unplugging part of the jack that's in the "send" output (saves you a trip to the amp :P ). I don't think there is an option in the KPA for it (muting the ref amp).

  • I would definitely NOT suggest muting the reference amp when you listen to the Kemper profile. The purpose of A/B'ing is to get an accurate profile, and muting your amp would pretty much kill that.


    If you really, really don't want to hear the amp, you could try unplugging part of the jack that's in the "send" output (saves you a trip to the amp :P ). I don't think there is an option in the KPA for it (muting the ref amp).


    Correct.
    Muting the amp would make an A/B comparisin simply impossible. Even if the amp is in the next room.
    No option.

  • It's hard to focus on the Kemper's profile you're creating when you're also hearing the amp, even with the amp in another room I still get some bleed through closed back headphones. While A/B'ing is valuable, so is being able to analyze the profile. Using one of the Kemper's switches to mute the output to the reference amp would give the user the option to A/B if they choose or critically listen to the profile without having to pull cables out or go into another room and put the amp in standby.

  • I don't understand why we cant have the reference amp muted when the Kemper profile is selected,
    it mutes the profile when you select the reference Amp.
    It would still work for A/B,you would select A to hear only A then B to hear only B.
    I believe the majority of us owning a kemper will be profiling in a non studio environment.


    Of course there are simple manual solutions one of witch would be be the use of a A/B box on the direct out cable to the amp A /no amp B.

  • I would definitely NOT suggest muting the reference amp when you listen to the Kemper profile.


    Quote from ckemper

    Muting the amp would make an A/B comparisin simply impossible. Even if the amp is in the next room. No option.


    But how can you hear the Kemper profile if it's being drowned out by the reference amp? :wacko: My Genelec monitors are pretty good, but they can't compete with a cranked 50W amp! Surely in a home situation, NOT muting the reference amp (and alternately the Kemper amp) makes a comparison impossible? ?(


    Having to stop playing and then wander across the room to mess with cables also kills the immediacy of the A/B comparison. It would be so much easier if Kemper would give us an automatic mute option so home users can do an immediate comparison without losing the flow of playing. It doesn't need to be the default and studio users won't ever want to use it, but it would be nice just to have the option for those of us without soundproof booths in our homes. ;)


  • But how can you hear the Kemper profile if it's being drowned out by the reference amp? :wacko: My Genelec monitors are pretty good, but they can't compete with a cranked 50W amp! Surely in a home situation, NOT muting the reference amp (and alternately the Kemper amp) makes a comparison impossible? ?(


    Having to stop playing and then wander across the room to mess with cables also kills the immediacy of the A/B comparison. It would be so much easier if Kemper would give us an automatic mute option so home users can do an immediate comparison without losing the flow of playing. It doesn't need to be the default and studio users won't ever want to use it, but it would be nice just to have the option for those of us without soundproof booths in our homes. ;)

    +1 :thumbup:
    Adding the ability to A/B compare with a mute option would be great for some users.
    It's perfect for some situations where this feature would make it much easier to immediately hear the A/B comparison.


  • But how can you hear the Kemper profile if it's being drowned out by the reference amp? :wacko: My Genelec monitors are pretty good, but they can't compete with a cranked 50W amp! Surely in a home situation, NOT muting the reference amp (and alternately the Kemper amp) makes a comparison impossible? ?(


    How could you compare the profile if the reference amp sound monitored thru your studio speakers will drown in the direct cabinet sound anyway?


    If you have a listening situation like that, an A/B comparison is impossible by definition.

  • Quote from ckemper

    If you have a listening situation like that, an A/B comparison is impossible by definition.


    As I said in my first post... :rolleyes:

    I understand that it would not give a perfect A/B comparison as the Kemper is profiling what the mic hears, not necessarily what we hear from the amp in the room, but it would make the workflow easier for those of us profiling at home rather than in a studio. :)


    At the moment the workflow for those of us monitoring in the same room as the reference amp is needlessly awkward and the fix is trivially simple to implement.


    I don't know why you are being so stubborn on this issue - are you saying the product is only intended for people with an isolation cab or a soundproof studio? That rules out a very large enthusiast market. ?(


  • As I said in my first post... :rolleyes:


    At the moment the workflow for those of us monitoring in the same room as the reference amp is needlessly awkward and the fix is trivially simple to implement.


    I don't know why you are being so stubborn on this issue - are you saying the product is only intended for people with an isolation cab or a soundproof studio? That rules out a very large enthusiast market. ?(

    It has nothing to do with being stubborn, the product is developed to provide a PROPER A/B comparison and that is exactly what professionals want. And like I said, if you want to noodle around with the profile just partially unplug the jack for a while. It's not so hard honestly ;)

  • And like I said, if you want to noodle around with the profile just partially unplug the jack for a while. It's not so hard honestly ;)


    I'm doing 8 amps this weekend with 5 different mics. That's a lot of screwing around while refining. Maybe I should have just hired a studio! :rolleyes:


  • I'm doing 8 amps this weekend with 5 different mics. That's a lot of screwing around while refining. Maybe I should have just hired a studio! :rolleyes:

    Yup that's going to be quite an undertaking. But you could look at the bright side; if you have finished profiling them correctly you will never have to crank them at home again :thumbup:


  • As I said in my first post... :rolleyes:


    At the moment the workflow for those of us monitoring in the same room as the reference amp is needlessly awkward and the fix is trivially simple to implement.


    I don't know why you are being so stubborn on this issue - are you saying the product is only intended for people with an isolation cab or a soundproof studio? That rules out a very large enthusiast market. ?(


    If the Profiler was only made for isolated studios, the mute function would not be a problem, right?
    But even professional studios do not have perfect acoustics. This is why this feature is necessary for a valuable A/B comparison even in a pro studio.


    The question is, what you want to achieve.
    Do you want an A/B comparison, that does not work anyway, or do you want to have a quick switch to listen to the pure profile, to get an impression how it would sound without the reference amp in the room?


    Btw. the refining process will not work without the active sound of the reference amp.

  • If the Profiler was only made for isolated studios, the mute function would not be a problem, right? But even professional studios do not have perfect acoustics. This is why this feature is necessary for a valuable A/B comparison even in a pro studio.


    I'm really not following you. Are you saying that it actually has a mute function? My understanding is that it doesn't, hence the feature request. ?(

    The question is, what you want to achieve.


    Just simply to be able to flip between the reference amp and the Kemper profile and be able to hear each in isolation without having to stop playing, get up, mess around with cables and mixer buttons etc. I'm just asking for a System Preference option so that when you press the soft buttons to flip between the amps, it mutes the output for the one that you're not listening to. :thumbup:

  • I mean the feature is, that it doesn't mute.
    We had it in an early state when it muted, and found out that it makes an A/B comparison impossible.


    So you want to adapt the close mic sound to the " in the room" of the amp?

  • Quote from ckemper

    So you want to adapt the close mic sound to the " in the room" of the amp?


    No. This is now the third time I have posted the quoted text below in this thread. It was in my original first post. I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall asking for this very simple workflow feature. I will now give up. :rolleyes:

    I understand that it would not give a perfect A/B comparison as the Kemper is profiling what the mic hears, not necessarily what we hear from the amp in the room, but it would make the workflow easier for those of us profiling at home rather than in a studio. :)

  • Yes, and I have read three time the core message: "it would make the workflow easier", which is not enough information for me.
    Since there is a number of ways to implement a mute function, I was trying to find out where in the workflow it makes it easier.


    We check every new function for a maximum usability and - when it comes to profiling - workflow safety.


    You might agree that when there is an option or preference available that the amp is muted everytime you listen to the internal profile, then users who are less skilled than you might instinctively opt for this, as they feel it would be right to listen to the pure profile, without having the reference amp playing along even in the other room.
    But this would cause the A/B comparison to fail, as you change the environmental sound, everytime you switch back and forth. Then the reason for the failure would not be obvious for less skilled users.
    Please take this into consideration.


    I have plans for an option to mute the direct out, when you leave the profiling mode and go back to the browser mode, then the profile can be heard without the reference amp playing along.


    Would you like that?

  • Yes, and I have read three time the core message: "it would make the workflow easier", which is not enough information for me.


    I have spelled out repeatedly why it's an issue, who it applies to, detailed a rather clumsy workaround, suggested how to improve it and where in the system to put the improvement. I really don't know what more information I can give you.

    But this would cause the A/B comparison to fail, as you change the environmental sound, everytime you switch back and forth. Then the reason for the failure would not be obvious for less skilled users. Please take this into consideration.


    Maybe make users respond to a dialog box when they switch the option on, warning them that they will be comparing the sound of a miked amp with the natural sound of an unmiked amp-in-a-room and to expect differences? (Accept/Cancel)


    I have plans for an option to mute the direct out, when you leave the profiling mode and go back to the browser mode, then the profile can be heard without the reference amp playing along. Would you like that?


    Sure, but that would only fix half the problem.

  • We are not trying to do a A/B comparison when we do a profile with the Amp in the room
    we want to have the reference mute when we check the profile the Kemper just made.


    I have had very good sucsess doing profiles this way, just maybe a bit more trial and error time to get it.


    Sometime the profile even sounds better then the reference.


    I don't always need a perfect match.

  • I got your point, but it stands in contradiction to what Andrew said:


    [
    Having to stop playing and then wander across the room to mess with cables also kills the immediacy of the A/B comparison. It would be so much easier if Kemper would give us an automatic mute option so home users can do an immediate comparison without losing the flow of playing.


    He wants to make this A/B comparison, you want to check the profile, when it's done, without looking back to the original "amp in the room" sound.
    For me there is a big difference whether to embed this mute into the direct A/B comparison or one step later.