Delay + Rev Routing

  • Since the software upgrades that added reverbs and moved the Delay/Reverb routing from the Effects menu to the Rig Menu every profile now defaults to +58%. I almost always end up setting this to 0%. It's not the end of the world but it is a bit of a PITA having to set it every time when I'm browsing through a lot of rigs on RM for example.

    Is there a way to make 0% the default for all rigs somehow?

  • +58% is not the default. The value of "DLY+REV Routing" in Rig Settings equals the setting of its predecessor "Del+Rev Balance" in the reverb menu avoiding any related sound changes. If all your Rigs include this value now, it means, it has been this way in the past.

  • Hmmm, that’s strange. I certainly never noticed it before and it’s not something I change often. These are the way they show up on profiles I have downloaded from RE or commercial profiles mainly from MBritt and ToneJunkie. Maybe Michael or Johnathan could confirm whether that is their default setting for me.

  • Mine goes to 58% with any Tone Junkie profiles. It means the reverb slot behaves a bit differently than expected and this is very noticeable with the new reverbs.

    For years I used the reverbs in my DAW. Then I've been concentrating on the natural verbs that were added a few months ago which are excellent but I run them pretty low hence not seeing the issue before. Details in this thread V6 Reverbs Dry / Wet Mix

  • Before PROFILING you load one of the Rigs in your pool as a starting point. The effects of that Rig stay in the signal chain while you evaluate the new PROFILE and these effects are stored with the resulting Rig including the new PROFILE. So if "DLY+REV Routing" or its predecessor "DEL+REV Balance" were set to x% and were not adjusted before storing the new Rig, they - like any other parameter - ended up in the resulting Rig. That is intended behavior and no bug. Only the author knows, if this happened intentionally or accidentally. A few of our early factory Rigs had DEL+REV Balance set to +58% and other values. Some of these were obviously used as starting points during the creation of other PROFILEs. That's why we see this pattern. +58% is no default burnt into the software. However, such parameters can be changed at any time. And DLY+REV Routing only takes effect, if both modules DLY and REV are activated.

    This general logic is not new. DEL+REV Balance +58% was "hidden" in the reverb module of those Rigs all the time. Now, since we migrated this parameter into Rig Settings under the new name DLY+REV Routing, it's just more visible. Yes, if you load another reverb preset it's not overwritten anymore like before. But we had to move it to a neutral place since the REV module can hold all effect types and the reverbs could be anywhere. That's why it ended up in Rig Settings.

    We do housekeeping on a regular base including "normalizing" our factory Rigs. With 7.0 there will be a complete revision of all our factory Rigs. Setting DEL+REV Routing to neutral, where it has no practical effect, is part of the exercise.

  • Thank ypu for the explanation Burkhard. That make sense. I am not at my KPA just now (on holiday for a few weeks) but I definitely thought that I experienced the DLY/Rev mix affecting the perceived rev level even when only Rev was active. By active do you mean that an effect is actually loaded in he DLY slot even if this has a state of OFF? Or are you only referring to a situation where the effect in DLY is active (ON)?

  • Thank you for this Burkhard.

    The difficulty seems that some commercial profilers have made literally hundreds of profiles whereby this previously hidden setting was set inappropriately.

    If you are intending to normalise all factory content to 0%, can I ask why it isn’t instead removed or give the users the ability to lock it to zero? In other words, if it is no longer helpful (and it seems like it isn’t hence you setting it to zero in all cases) then why is it there? I have hundreds of purchased commercial profiles that are affected in this way as they’re all at 58%. If there is not a solution from factory, it either requires considerable time by individuals to re-save their own purchased profiles or it requires commercial vendors to realise the issue and take a view on providing updates for all their profiles with this normalised..... the ability to lock at zero would be a more elegant solution if possible?

  • DLY+REV Routing has no effect, if

    either the REV module is empty or switched off

    or the DLY module is empty

    or the DLY module includes an effect other than delay.

    It has an effect, if

    the REV module is switched on and the DLY module is filled with a delay effect regardless if the DLY module is switched on or off.

    Hope that clarifies.

    We can make decisions for Rigs that we have the ownership for. We don't want to manipulate commercial and non-commerical Rigs of other authors. Depending on the conditions above it either has no immediate impact on the sound or it has and is part of the design.

    We didn't change the value of DLY+REV Routing/DEL+REV Balance nor did we change the sound of the Rigs. We just moved the parameter into another menu.

  • Thanks again Burkhard. That makes total sense now. Most of the Rigs in rig packs from commercial profilers like atone Junkie and MBritt etc tend to include a Delay and Reverb in those two slots even if they are turned off. This explains why many of us are finding the reverb behaving on an unexpected manner but at least I now understand why it is doing it so can make my own adjustments to deal with it.