[solved] Huge Kemper Latency

  • i think inserting the Kemper in a track is the problem, cause you double the roundtrip latency

    Actually, you triple the latency (at least). Normally I would go Guitar->KPA->AudioInterface->Computer(DAW).


    The split introduce no latency and doesn't matter here. Apart from that, before the processed sound from the KPA has been recorded it has travelled Guitar->AudioIF->Computer(DAW)->AudioIF->KPA->AudioIF->Computer(DAW). Using for example a USB audio-interface this will obviously cause a rather "challenging" latency ;-) If you add software monitoring to that the sound travels a 4th time across USB back to the audio-interface before it is presented to the player. Even with the lowest latency audio-interfaces available this becomes a challenge.


    Edit: I didn't read the long message with details before writing the above so I assumed the KPA was used as an insert. With the additional information I suspect that faulty hardware is reason for there to be a 20ms latency on the KPA's main outputs compared to the direct signal when playing through a very basic profile. I would have to add lots of weird effects to make latency that bad. You wouldn't have KPAs in studios all over the world if it had been that bad.

  • Hi there,

    I am still waiting for the answer from the Kemper Support team, but in the meantime, I would like to clarify you shortly somethings...


    Of course, I have done the most-basic test of all - to plug a guitar in and play whilst monitoring from the Kemper's headphone output, and the answer is yes, I can note the lag, as well as I have been noting the lag my whole lifetime playing the keyboards thru midi until USB appeared in my life. I have been a session pianist / keyboardist for many years, and I have been playing many years a little bit ahead of time because the midi latency. But pianist and keyboardist can use the quantize function in our sequencers, while guitarist don't, that's the thing, hehe...


    But the question here is that I use the KPA in a professional environment where it's highly important to be perfectly aligned with the grid. I.e. in one of the albums that I am producing now I am using a whole symphonic orchestra, and many times the strings are doing staccato notes at the same time with the guitars. So imagine how important is to be in the grid, or at least to be in sync with the rest of instruments.


    Actually, now I completely understand why the first bars of every take in the recording I did with my session guitarist had that "engine starting slowly" effect. It was because the session guitarist tried to play on the beat in the "drop" (punch-in), and when his brain detected the delay, tried to accelerate the next chord or notes of the arpeggio to be in sync with the track. So, it was not the Kemper the one who has a fluctuating latency, but the own guitarist trying to accommodate his performance to that latency.


    I need to record both signals from guitar, direct and processed, because sometimes I like to reamp again some of the sounds to reinforce them, or just to accommodate those guitars better in the mix. If the session guitarist can deal with the latency, cool! He will be recording in sync the processed sound, great!. But anyway, I will have to align the clean sound if I want to be able to reamp that track again, right?


    At any case, I really think the problem is that my unit is faulty, it seems very clear now. Because I'm sure some of you do albums as well as me, and if you say that the KPA's latency is almost nothing noticeable, I believe you!


    Said this, thank you so much to all of you for your help on this. You have been so kind, and I feel very happy to be part of this community of friends of the KPA.


    I will let you know the answer from the Kemper Support Team.

    Maybe they will be able to send me a new beta chip with zero latency, and make me his official beta tester, LOL

  • Thank you for all the clarifications, Hermes.


    There won't be any "beta chip" for you, but if, as you say, your KPA exhibits latency even from the headphone out, it must IMHO be a super-rare case of a faulty unit somehow.


    I say super-rare 'cause I've not heard of such an issue, but that's not to say you're the only person in the last 7 years who's experienced this - you may well be, but in any case I can only assume you've been very-unlucky.


    I'm sure support will look after you. Please keep us informed as to what happens. Good luck, mate!

  • I am using a whole symphonic orchestra, and many times the strings are doing staccato notes at the same time with the guitars. So imagine how important is to be in the grid, or at least to be in sync with the rest of instruments.

    no I know you are crazy 8o


    I didn’t think string sections EVER played in time. I thought they were always behind the beat so latency on guitar should be a special bonus feature for orchestra recordings :D


    If you have discovered a way to get string sections to play in time you deserve a Nobel Prize :D



    Hope you get to the bottom of the problem soon. It is a great uint and should definitely be able to serve you well.

  • I have recorded multiple records with the Kemper and have never had an issue with latency. I never monitor through Pro Tools, as there is latency involved there. I haven't read all the replies here, but my suggestion (which has probably been said already) is to monitor the Kemper from the interface BEFORE it goes to Pro Tools. This will eliminate the buffer latency in Pro Tools (which can be anywhere from 32 samples to over 1000), thus making your performance tight and latency free. If you try to monitor in Pro Tools, you will get the latency of the audio buffer, plus any latency associated with tracking.

    In short, monitor direct instead of through Pro Tools and you shouldn't have any issues.

  • Hi Guys,

    good news!

    I received the help of Kemper Support Team (KST), and after a complete reset of the machine following some steps that I couldn't not find anywhere in the manual, nor in the web, now everything works as expected. As I told you before in one of my post, I had already done a reset of my unit, but not following the same steps.


    At any case, I did this complete restoration two times, because when everything was working, I restored again my presets from a backup I did at the beginning of the process as suggested by KST. After doing it, the huge latency came again to play. So, it's clear that my problem had to do with presets, OS versions, conflicts between them, whatever. Honestly, the only thing I did after the unboxing was nothing else than to update the SO. But who knows... Machines get sometimes crazy I guess...


    Now, recording at 44.1 with and a buffer of 64 samples I got a latency of 169 samples (3,8ms) with one the first presets in the factory bank of KPA called "2011 More Gain AC20". And if I record with a buffer 256 samples, the latency is just 6-10 samples. Both measures has been done recording via the Front input, and recording the KPA to ProTools via the Master Analog output. Reamping the direct signal thru the SPDIF in ProTools I got a latency of 331 samples (7,5 ms).


    BTW, I have installed already the last beta version 6.0.


    I leave below the full detailed instructions I received from KST, just in case any of you at any time have the same problem I had:

    Quote

    text deleted by moderator because system maintenance procedures should only be used after consulting support.


    Again thanks for your help on this.

    Happy to be a new member of this friendly and great community!

  • That's fantastic, Hermes!


    Thank you for sharing the instructions you we're given. Something I'd like to know is exactly what the backup file you used in step #7 was. It appears that the team posted it to you. Is it something we all have?


    7. Restore the attached backup from a USB memory stick. The process is explained in the manual. The PROFILER will restart automatically.

  • Hi again Monkey_Man !

    Oh Yes, I'm sorry I forgot to comment that.

    Kemper Support Team sent me the backup of the factory content 5.7.

    I had my own clean backup of the presets of my unit that I did in Rig Manager, but I suspect that this backup file was the file that fix everything in my unit. I tried to upload the file, but it weights 2.6 Mb and the maximum file size allowed to be uploaded here is 1 Mb. I can send it via wetransfer but the link will be expired in a week.


    Maybe Kemper should make a clean entry in this forum based in my case, and provided this file or next Factory Content files for each upcoming versions, just in case someone have my same problem. Don't you think so?


    At any case, if you know any way to send the file that will not be expired after a week I will be happy to send it to you.

  • there is nothing special about that backup file that we sent you. It is just the regular factory content. But it would be very helpful if you could send your corrupted backup to the support team so we can take a closer look at what was causing your issue.

  • Thank you for the detailed explanation and kind offer, Hermes! <3


    It doesn't matter now 'though 'cause Hans kindly cleared things up. As he implied, the team would appreciate it if you could send a copy of that corrupted backup file so they can maybe figure out what happened.


    As I said much earlier, the huge-latency thing is so rare I haven't seen it myself, and if I were Kemper I'd want to know what caused it. :/

  • DonPetersen

    Changed the title of the thread from “Huge Kemper Latency” to “[solved] Huge Kemper Latency”.