Well.. Try this test

    Take 3 or 4 of your fav clean sounds..make a copy of them with gain on zero ,clean sense,definition and all Eq on 5 ,no effects.Same cab for all... well to sum it up same exact setting for all...difference should come from the amp profiled ..what do you hear ?
    Here I have 3 times the same exact tone with a Vibrolux,Decatone and CAE ..so when gain is on zero the tone will come from the cab and settings..amp profiled doesn't really matter ?

    Is definition part of the amp profile? I profiled two amps and got different definition for them. If you change this parameter, you are changing the profile.


    I tried it and, if you use the same cab, they are very similar but not identical.


    Saludos!

    With no gain and eq the same, through the SAME CAB.. chances are the sound will be very similair. likewise If i put my two different amps with no eq or gain influencing the sound through the same cab, they will sound pretty much the same most likely. I think the cab has such an effect on overall sound, in digital realm and real life as well, that could be why. swap out the cab and see how different they are..

    sorry but I disagree...There's a ton of difference between two clean amps in the same cab.. ..but here I get absolutely the same thing with 3 profiles.
    If I set a real Vibrolux,Decatone and CAE in the same cab they will sound different .

    Quote from audioholic

    With no gain and eq the same, through the SAME CAB.. chances are the sound will be very similair. likewise If i put my two different amps with no eq or gain influencing the sound through the same cab, they will sound pretty much the same most likely. I think the cab has such an effect on overall sound, in digital realm and real life as well, that could be why. swap out the cab and see how different they are..

    He's saying that the amp section sounds the same i.e. neutral once you remove the cabs. Which would make sense as the amp section as I see it is really the pre-amp/distortion section and the cab is the speaker, mic and poweramp section. The character of clean amps mostly comes from the power amp and speaker interaction, so it's what I'd expect.


    Bruno were you expecting the cab to just be an IR? Because to my ears there's a lot more than that, you can tell by just playing with the "Character" dial in there, it really affects the way the amp reacts and the distortion sounds. With no character it's closer to an IR, sounding more like the sound you get directly out of a pre-amp with no speaker, no spongeyness, the more character you add the more poweramp and speaker but also the more you get towards what sounds like a damaged speaker or blattery poweramp sound (which can be quite a cool thing sometimes) with the more extreme cabs.


    The Stack is definitely a complete thing making up one amp, which is why I'm not keen on swapping out cabs as it tends to make whatever amp you're using turn into a rectifier or whatever the original cab came from. It would be cool if it were possible to separately dial on/off the cab's effect on frequency just as you can adjust the character (cab distortion?) control, and transfer just the "character" or just the "eq" effect between cabs.

    Quote from Per

    He's saying that the amp section sounds the same i.e. neutral once you remove the cabs. Which would make sense as the amp section as I see it is really the pre-amp/distortion section and the cab is the speaker, mic and poweramp section. The character of clean amps mostly comes from the power amp and speaker interaction, so it's what I'd expect.


    Bruno were you expecting the cab to just be an IR? Because to my ears there's a lot more than that, you can tell by just playing with the "Character" dial in there, it really affects the way the amp reacts and the distortion sounds. With no character it's closer to an IR, sounding more like the sound you get directly out of a pre-amp with no speaker, no spongeyness, the more character you add the more poweramp and speaker but also the more you get towards what sounds like a damaged speaker or blattery poweramp sound (which can be quite a cool thing sometimes) with the more extreme cabs.


    The Stack is definitely a complete thing making up one amp, which is why I'm not keen on swapping out cabs as it tends to make whatever amp you're using turn into a rectifier or whatever the original cab came from. It would be cool if it were possible to separately dial on/off the cab's effect on frequency just as you can adjust the character (cab distortion?) control, and transfer just the "character" or just the "eq" effect between cabs.


    There's a difference when it is not a clean sound with gain on zero anyway ..not a huge one but it's there..so yes the cab contains a lot of the amp actually which is good to know when you want to mix

    Quote from BRUNO

    There's a difference when it is not a clean sound with gain on zero anyway ..not a huge one but it's there..so yes the cab contains a lot of the amp actually which is good to know when you want to mix


    I take the opportunity from this important POST from BRUNO "Well.. Try this test" to make futher investigation test.
    I believe that such discover is very important to clearly have a specific title thread, so I open a new one called


    "CLEAN Amplifiers: the Pre in the Kemper Models is IDENTICAL for ALL !!!"


    Here are the conclusion:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/568398…enHotRoad-FenDeluxe85.wav


    In the modeling of CLEAN amplifiers they differ only for the CAB emulation. But this also means that the modeling, while being very faithful as a whole, absolutely it is not in the subdivision between preamp and power amp. It is absolutely not credible that the Fender Deluxe 85 amp has the same sound of a tube amp Fender Deluxe Hot Road or the same of the amp Hiwatt DR103 !!
    I believe that such behaviour should be mentioned and explaied in some way in the instrucion and guide for the KPA from the Kemper team...