What Audio Interface to record Kemper + extra ?

  • Yes I did and MOTU was definatly one of the contenders but price wise here in Europe Focusrite gave more bang for the buck... The other serious contender were RME, but at that time they were basically 100% Windows focused and did all Mac drivers as a second thought. Brilliant hardware but there were a lot of issues were people had to wait for updates... (and expensive also)

    This have changed these days and now we also have UA and Apogee as great choices!

    I still think Focusrite has the better price/value ratio AND a great Mac support.

    Thanks - that is great feedback. Agree that RME - still seems more WIN based, and Audio tools seems quit old. It does seem that Focusrite gives more hardware inputs for similar budget (see my response to MM). But Lightbox warned against limitation of their mix/routing software "Control".


    Any experience on that ?

  • Thanks for warning me on TotalMix. It is for a (small) home studio. And in first instance, want focus on guitar and Kemper and quest for great warm blooming tone like SRV or John Mayer, ... ). Somehow I still prefer my Fender Blues Deluxe over the Kemper + DX12. Other potential purchases like Kemper Cab, UA OX will likely be more important/ have more impact on playing experience than the difference between RME and MOTU/Focusrite differences in DA/AD I assume.


    A couple of years ago I was more into (amateur) recording, and noticed that recording drum wasn't that easy. Hence the RTA might help setting up EQ to get better focused drum tracks on those couple occasions when I try to record a drum with my 4 mikes.


    Need to look into how to get my SPDIF covered to Optical, but you pointed out it was likely not cheap, but if all that becomes too risky/complex/costly might as well go for interace with cinch SPDIF as most on forum recommend to record that way (and it saves another input).


    I like hi-tech , but never used my VG8, Fostex VF16 or even Korg 168RC a lot - too complex if you don't use it weekly, and distracts from playing - hence I fear for the rabit holes called Apollo/Axe FX/... . For next 1-2 yrs want to focus on guitar & tone with Kemper, and eventually 1 or 2 amps , but gradually build towards a good home studio.


    Trying to stay shorter than you novel ! ;) But thanks all for your input. Always difficult to get good SNR on YT reviews and understand where its most important to put one's money with all these goodies to buy that promise you Tone Heaven !

  • … too complex if you don't use it weekly, and distracts from playing ...

    Very true, things can get pretty complex at some point. The Kemper has so many output options, you can record so many different signals, even without using S/PDIF. Sometimes I do make use of this "flexibility" … especially when I have to work with clients who struggle to commit to a specific tone. In these cases, it's nice to have a DI track, great to have the mono Stack signal, good to have the wet stereo effects separately, plus the complete Master Stereo signal.

    But to be honest, I NEVER use this for my own recordings. I do record a DI track and the Master Stereo, that's it. I know what I want and I'm not afraid to commit to my choice.


    If you have an interface with decent converters (and imho that's the case for all your current options), there's no need for S/PDIF. You can keep your interface internally clocked all the time, can use whatever sample rate you want without worrying. Makes things a lot easier to focus on your music and playing. :)


    As a small extra bit of info, I want to add a topic you likely haven't thought off yet. Recording instruments with multiple microphones. No matter if you want to record your Blues Deluxe with 2 mics or if you want to record guitar with 2 microphones or even record acoustic drums … mic placement is VERY important. You certainly don't want to run into phase issues. :)

    One of the greatest tools to help you position your mics exactly right is the polarity switch on a mic preamp. Focusrite Scarlett and the Clarett 8pre don't have this at all, Focusrite Clarett 8preX has hardware buttons on the front panel, MOTU has it but on a different page of their control software, not directly in the mixer page. You probably already guessed that this is something, RME does a lot better in TotalMix FX (and TotalMix Remote).
    Is this a reason to change your mind again and rob a bank? Maybe not, if this isn't your daily job. You'll find some way to do it properly even when using the cheaper Focusrites. But it's a nice example of small differences that can make a big difference if you need it every day and if time matters. :)


    Cheers

    Martin

  • IF the MOTU FFTS analyser runs using Mac processing, then I might as well use Logic Pro FFT, if it uses its onboard DSP, then its a clear advantage.

    All the onboard FX run on the MOTU hardware and the AVB line uses FPGA chips for all routing and DSP, FWIMBW.

  • Trying out a Presonus Quantum at the moment. Is a 28x32 i/o that i managed to order new for 850 EUR . Has 2 x Thunderbolt and analog spdif and 2x adats. Was tested in SOS mag to have very low latensy. Has almost no mixing soft of no onboard DSP, but relies you to do everything in DAW. Oh, unfortunately no polarity switch.


    1st Experience is fine - struggling to get my Fender Strat recorded noisefree. RTA of presonus UC tool shows quitte some noise, that Logic Pro EQ plug-in ‘s RTA does not show. Gave up on 1st pick-up position - too noisy.


    KPA’s noisegate 1st filter at 0.2 setting, kills mains hum, but pick-up hum is quite strong. Noisegate at 4 to 5 deals with that, but hiss/fizz still there when playing. EQ filter around 2k-5k dan filter Some out but also removew ‘air’ from sound, so not ideal. Manage to turn / oriënt Guitar in very specific position to reduce thIS, but not ideal. Kind of kills all discussion About interface SNR and 110/120/130dB


    How do you guys manage ? Do you sit in a Faraday cage ?

  • Was the guitar-pickup noise there before you bought the Quantum? If unsure, check with headphones plugged into the KPA.


    If it's not an issue with the interface, which I doubt, yeah, orientation whilst recording, as well as positioning yourself as far away from electrical devices as possible and ensuring fluorescent lighting isn't the major culprit should be your first moves IMHO.


    Beyond these, "noiseless" pickups, rewiring the guitar and using higher-quality leads should each help, you'd think.


    Firstly 'though, try switching the ground-lift switches at the rear of the Kemper for the output/s you're using in and out; you never know - a miracle could occur...

  • Fender strats with original pickup design are inherently noisy. They pick up hum, RFI etc from the environment - electric motors, light dimmers, switching power supplies, CRT monitors, computers are all noise sources. Solution for single coils is noiseless pickups of some type (EMG, Kinman etc) or use guitars with humbuckers.

  • Fender strats with original pickup design are inherently noisy. They pick up hum, RFI etc from the environment - electric motors, light dimmers, switching power supplies, CRT monitors, computers are all noise sources. Solution for single coils is noiseless pickups of some type (EMG, Kinman etc) or use guitars with humbuckers.

    Not just Strats, Teles too.

    My somewhat new tele and any other sc gits, only works good at my home around 11:00 PM thru 4-5 A.M there is some external (to my home) noise source that creeps in all other times.

    My Strat has a BPNCS installed to kill SC hum and that works out quite good.


    For the OT:

    Since I am not soft-monitoring through my DAW, I can relax the buffer and most daws take care of any any sample delay automatically.

    I use Steinberg UR-44, or Iconnectaudio 4+ if am portable (or using ipad pro for daw).

    and my Soundcraft MTK 22 if Need more inputs (synths , kronos) or need to use my outboard gear or summing.

    - Too Many Synths and Way too Many Guitars :rolleyes:

    Edited 2 times, last by atalwar ().

  • Noise was there before as well. don’t think interface affects it. Point I was making is that I was comparing SNR and dynamics specs betweeen audio interfaces , but with SC guitars, there is loads of background noise that affects recording much more.


    So how do you all cope/deal with it ? Do you use the noise gate ( but still hear it while you play), or apply band filters via EQ - so remove some unwanted frequencies, but at same time loose some tone character ?


    Or just move rooms / places until you find a quiet spot ? Switching off lights doesn’t help. Switching off computers not ideal as I would like to record to DAW - and use Rig manager.


    Are there other tools that help ? Radial filters with ground lift, Furmann power with (?), Kinmann/noiseless PU - but doesn’t that kill the custom shop guitar value you thought of buying ? ...

    Edited once, last by JVDW ().

  • Thought ground lifts from KPA will only work if you are linking to powered speakers that are not on the same circuit. Have already experimented with that. Like linking 1 guitar to two amps will guarantee having extra buzz / hum unless you put a ground lift on one. Radial switches have these, and are much better than a Boss or Behringer ABY switch

    Edited 2 times, last by JVDW ().

  • What is BPNCS ?

    ILITCH BPNCS – Back Plate Noise Canceling System:


    Strat BPNCS – ILITCH ELECTRONICS


    Switching off computers not ideal as I would like to record to DAW - and use Rig manager.

    I was only suggesting getting as far away from that stuff as possible whilst recording:

    "... orientation whilst recording, as well as positioning yourself as far away from electrical devices as possible..."


    You could programme your DAW to carry out automatic drop-ins and generate new takes. You could also use a footswitch to drop yourself in or even a small board with several switches for more-complete control. Also there's the option of using a hand-controlled remote, obviously.


    This is assuming you're not able to fix the noise issue at-source, of course. A combination of mild-gate settings (the intelligent one - not the stomp version) and physical positioning might get you into the ballpark. Failing that, something like the BPNCS or replacing the PU's with noiseless ones will logically be your last-resort move IMHO.

  • The Problem with such noise is that the note decay suffers. As the note decays (sustains), the noise increases.

    Good line conditioner might help if its a line issue (I am going to get one myself) .

    For a Post Recording Fix Waves Z-Noise and IIRC IZOTOPE RX7 both offer noise removal via noise profiling. that you can run your tracks through with some isolated sample of noise for the profile. These don't work well while tracking due to latency.

    - Too Many Synths and Way too Many Guitars :rolleyes:

  • Just an Update:

    I ended up purchasing an ART PS4x4 Power Conditioner, connected kemper and my pedals through it and my signal has improved many folds.

    If your signal suffers from strange noise you might wanna check out some power conditioning.

    - Too Many Synths and Way too Many Guitars :rolleyes:

  • ART PS4x4 Power Conditioner

    Glad you found something that helps you. :)

    Just for the record, this unit is NOT a power conditioner, it's a power distributor with EMI/RFI filtering. :)

    Power conditioners are heavy (and usually pretty expensive) beasts that not only incorporate EMI/RFI filtering but also power regulation for a steady and isolated voltage supply using a toroidal transformer.

  • Glad you found something that helps you. :)

    Just for the record, this unit is NOT a power conditioner, it's a power distributor with EMI/RFI filtering. :)

    Power conditioners are heavy (and usually pretty expensive) beasts that not only incorporate EMI/RFI filtering but also power regulation for a steady and isolated voltage supply using a toroidal transformer.

    Ahh, yes,

    I already have a 5KVA Conditioner installed at mains along with dedicated 2KVA SineWave UPS for audio gear. But those more or less deal with quantity of power as opposed to quality.

    - Too Many Synths and Way too Many Guitars :rolleyes:

  • Just a note on the RME interfaces like the UFX which were being discussed in this thread.


    While it is true that these do not have a "coax SPDIF' they do have dedicated XLR AES/EBU ports (in and out). These are electrically compatible with coax SPDIF - AES/EBU is a pro version of SPDIF which runs on balanced lines to support long cable runs but the signal carried is not a different protocal.


    To connect an SPDIF device like the KPA, you just need to wire a coax lead with an RCA jack at one end and an XLR at the other with the correct wiring. This "hack" is recommended by M. Carstens - chief engineer at RME and works perfectly. The other alternative is an optical/coax SPDIF box which are available for modest cost.

  • Short update on Quantum AI. Connected the old M-Audio profire2626 via adat to Quantum. Worked directly. now have 8 extra inputs (and outputs if I need them). Now only need to order some copper tape and treat my Strat. Might look at Strat with noiseless PU , but hear that one looses In the high frequencies then.