i am german. please help me. what is FRFR?????

    just kidding. :D


    there are three words/facts/things you frequently use i do not understand:
    1) FRFR
    2) pre EQ (for tonal tightness)
    3) post EQ (for both fatness and de-fizzing)


    no idea, folks, no idea. thanks.

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    1) Full Range Flat Response. Typically a PA/Stage monitor
    2) Eq placed before the amp
    3) Eq placed after the amp


    Kann auch auf Deutsch erklären wann du brauchst. :D

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    I'm far from being an expert here, but I believe that:


    FRFR = full range full response - a flat power amplifier to simply reproduce what the KPA produces without coloration


    pre EQ is when using it in the Stomp section, before the preamp


    post EQ is when using in the Effects section, after the preamp


    Gurus, please chime in ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    thank you, folks. now understand what those words mean. :thumbup:


    1) can you recommend a fullrange amplifier then? usually the club owner has got one, anyway, hasn´t he?
    @2 and 3:

    Quote

    Have you ever wondered why your KPA Mesa Amp model doesn't sound like the tone on your guitar hero's latest CD? You are profiling the same amp he uses, so why the difference? It is simply this: He not only used that amp, but he use both pre EQ (for tonal tightness) and post EQ (for both fatness and de-fizzing), multi-band compression (for even-ness), and an ideal miking setup. So in the end, the fact that your profile sounds like a naked miked Marshall really doesn't get you very far...

    Radley wrote this a couple of weeks ago. Is it possible to at least come near to this with the KPA or do you need a plug-in, for instance a good equalizer for cubase in my case?
    toontrack offers a package "mixed by the pros" ore something similar. is it a good buy, or do you have to read a hundred book first?


    thanx anyway, no need to translate this time, but thank you, i´ll come back to this if necessary

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    That pretty much sums it up. Let me add this:


    pre-EQ is used to shape the signal that enters the gain stages, therefore shaping how the distortion sounds. For instance, you can lower the bass to have a clearer bass in your sound. And on the other hand, if you like your amp's break-up in the highs you can accentuate those.
    post-EQ is used to shape the frequencies and achieve your desired sound post-distortion that the PA will receive. So here you will listen whether you miss the warm bass or perhaps dial down some harsh highs.

    1- I'm very happy with my RCF NX-12SMA, but there are a lot of other (cheaper, or lot more expensive as well) solutions. At best take your KPA to a well supplied music shop and start trying the powered wedges in the PA dept.


    Your second question would require a long and complex answer. It all depends what you're looking for. If you want a mastered guitar sound on a record....well, that is exactly what you need to do: master it and produce it. If you want a good live sound then what you're looking for is exactly what comes out from the Kemper: the sound of a good mic'd amp. The rest is going to be done by the sound guy (eq, panning.....)

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    The funny thing about FRFR is that 95% of FRFR powered speakers are not FRFR...maybe even 100%. :D


    If you own a pair of "FRFR" studio monitors, and you own a "FRFR" powered speaker, how come they don't sound the same? :D


    For example, see if you can find the word FRFR on this site...I can't.
    http://www.qscaudio.com/press/news.php?id=352


    Or here.
    http://www.mackie.com/products/speakers/index.html


    PA's and stage monitors have been around for decades, but the word FRFR seems to have been invented by guitarists using modellers...where did the word FRFR originate...anyone know?

    not even 2 pairs of studio monitors sound the same. one pair sounds different. my "left" KRK rockit 5 is just this little bit darker. @ same settings, ofcourse.

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Quote from Geraldo7

    1) can you recommend a fullrange amplifier then? usually the club owner has got one, anyway, hasn´t he?

    There are some new products coming out that look really good (if you can wait). They are FRFR but designed for guitar players.


    1. Atomic Amplification has the Jay Mitchell designed CLR (Coincident Linear Response) cabinets coming out soon. They will be available powered and un-powered. You can find more info on the Atomic CLR's on the modelling section of TheGearPage.net Atomic's site is http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm


    2. Matrix Amplification is also working on powered and non-powered FRFR cabs. Matrix currently has the GT800FX power amp (which is outstanding) and has just released the GT1000FX which looks really nice too. Matrix's guitar power amps can be found here http://matrixguitaramplification.com/products/



    You can also take your Kemper to your local music store and try out power amps and powered stage monitors.

    Edited once, last by MaxTwang ().

    FRFR is a term definitely coined or at least adopted by guitarist. It came about because most guitarist don't understand why amp modeling devices sound horrible through their guitar amps. They want the modeller device to make their amp sound like a different amp....which it cant do because the amp has a fixed voice, or tonal color. The more technical guitarist recognized this and sought out un-colored, neutral sounding amplification. Keyboard amps, Bass amps, PA Cabinets, floor wedges...anything EXCEPT a guitar amp. They called these speakers Full Range Flat Response = FRFR and although no speaker is perfect, by design these speakers attempt to faithfully reproduce the signal without drastically changing the tone.


    Take your favorite song recording and play it back through a guitar amp. It will sound very different, probably really bad. Well thats what happens when a modelled (ok...profiled) Kemper output is sent to a guitar amp. The fidelity is destroyed. Using the KPA as a peamp only helps but now you lose versitility since your guitar amp will always have the final say in your tone.


    An FRFR system should be as transparent as possible so our KPA profiles sound as intended.


    Kemper pulled the ultimate bait and switch whem marketing the KPA. They showed videos and called it an "Amp" and never clearly explained how it amplifies. BRILLIANT! However, the downside for the "real amp" user is discovering its best to use FRFR gear to realize the full potential. The cool thing is that amp users can gradually migrate....or just use the KPA as a preamp


    I'm a FRFR player. I use a 500w stereo keyboard combo amp (Motion Sound KP500sn) as my stage monitor that is reasonably FRFR and I feed the main mix directly....nothing mic'd.


    bd

    Quote from musicman65

    I use a 500w stereo keyboard combo amp (Motion Sound KP500sn) as my stage monitor

    How do you like it compared to a normal wedge (at that price you can get a really good one)?

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Quote from musicman65

    I'm a FRFR player. I use a 500w stereo keyboard combo amp (Motion Sound KP500sn) as my stage monitor that is reasonably FRFR and I feed the main mix directly....nothing mic'd.


    bd


    Hi bd,
    Another VGuitar member here.
    Before I decided to get a KPA I was a dedicated pedal, tube amp devotee, with the exception of the GR-55 for synth, and alt. tunings.
    I had been using a Motion Sound SRV-112, but now, I don't need the tube amps.
    So if I want to use the SRV with the KPA I have to change over to a FRFR power amp, or just use the KPA as a preamp, as you described, and use the return on my tube amp for the power amp.
    But, as you explained above, I will not get the best results from my KPA using this method.
    Plus I would still have to lug around my 54lb tube combo, which defeats one of the main incentives for getting the KPA.
    I am planning to use the master output to powered speakers (or FOH), but I want to use the monitor out to
    go to the SRV , So I just closed the deal on an old Butler Mosvalve MV-962, for a really good price.
    Now I can keep my beloved Motion Sound Leslie, and all the tubey goodness of the KPA
    with the (almost) FRFR Mosvalve, at about 1/3 the weight, and 1/6 the size, of
    the combo amp. I love the Motion Sound SRV, and there is no way I'm givin' it up!

    Quote from guitarnet70

    How do you like it compared to a normal wedge (at that price you can get a really good one)?

    I like the KP500sn a lot....but to be fair, I haven't tried any good powered wedges with a 12" speaker. The KP500sn has 2 12" speakers and 4 Horns in a splayed ("V" shaped) cabinet. Looks classy too. There is a wide control that is MAGIC....the amps stereo image becomes huge and the apparent location of the amp shifts back a few feet and widens up....kinda melts into the room...magic....MAGIC I tell you. Lol!


    2 nice powered wedges would probable do pretty good too. I do like the wedges that can sit straight or slanted so they can run as a backline if desired.


    bd